[Kevin Raber]

Capture One

on: January 18, 2023 at 11:33 pm

OK, you are hearing this from one person who touts Capture One on this site all the time.  I was a 13-year employee of Phase One.  If you are on Capture One’s mailing list, then you most likely got one of the most confusing emails from a software company ever today.  Capture broke off from Phase One a few years ago.  I believe they are still a part of Phase One but are separate entities.  The topic was all about a new licensing model and the push for having customers move to a subscription-based model.  It was the worst presentation I have ever seen from a company and, frankly, has made me consider jumping ship.  On Thursday, I will publish my thoughts and views on this craziness.

I hate to say this, but the bottom line is it is time to reconsider, and moving forward I will be moving over to Lightroom as my full-time RAW processor.  I’ll share why in my article.  I’ll keep a subscription to C1 because I have 23 years’ worth of sessions and catalogs that I need to access.  But, when needed, I will load old sessions into Lightroom, and with any new shoots, I’ll import them right into Lightroom.

While I know LR pretty well, I may bring in Jeff Schewe and do some videos on Lightroom for Capture One users.  I think Capture One really misjudged and is going to find out it what they are doing hasn’t been well thought out.  I wished they would have asked a few of us in the know, and we could help them avert the bad vibes that they had created.

We will use this topic to discuss further.  Feel free to contribute.

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

• This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Kevin Raber.

[Oliver Ritter-Wolff]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #1 on: January 19, 2023 at 6:03 am

Hello Kevin,

the thoughts make themselves at present some, alone in my environment I know three which are shortly before the jump with C1 and these are all users of many years.

After my switch to digital photography in 2003 and when the millennium was still young, I attended one of the C1 training courses held by Renate Lange at PhaseOne in Cologne. Since then I have actually always used the RAW converter, even when Adobe launched LR, a highly integrated system that had extensive DAM features on board. In 2018 I started an attempt to switch completely to the product with the advanced DAM features of C1. Unfortunately, this only worked to a limited extent, since on the one hand the DAM functions are still inferior to those of LRC and on the other hand I had serious problems with the C1 database twice, which manifested itself in such a way that it was no longer possible to import photos. In addition, there was a problem with the Wacom tablet under macOS on my MacMini i7, which was not solvable but also only occurred with C1. I have reported about it sufficiently. When then still the message of the company Capture One came that the license model will change and one is more or less forced to go into the subscription, that was for me a kind of caesura and the decision matured quickly for various reasons to switch back to LRC, to make things easier for me in many places, to be able to use more plug-ins and to let C1 expire with the v23.

On top, LRC has also evolved considerably and among other things the masking functions have evolved considerably. So I recently made the re-switch and rebuilt back to my 2018 LRC database and have since re-imported everything I have photographed since then.

Currently I’m looking for and editing photos for a book and have gotten back into LRC mode quite nicely, although I still find some things better implemented in the C1 RAW converter at the user interface.

If I have previously allowed myself the luxury of using several RAW converters in parallel and these also according to their strengths here and there to use again and again, I go from it now, because with that with several subscriptions in parallel then also too expensive and because the cost-benefit ratio is then simply no longer right for me.

Oliver

https://www.riwodot.de

https://vero.co/riwodot

https://www.instagram.com/riwodot/

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Oliver Ritter-Wolff.

[Leon Droby Participant Posts: 3]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #2 on: January 19, 2023 at 9:24 am

To me, the worst part of this transition is that if I want to give Capture One’s subscription a try, I lose my perpetual copy of Capture One.  That just doesn’t seem right.

I would like to switch from Capture One Pro perpetual to subscription license

If you are a Capture One Pro perpetual license holder, one of the options you will see in the upgrade store is “Switch to subscription“. Upon this switch, your old key (associated with the perpetual license) gets deactivated automatically and you receive a new subscription license key. It will not be possible to revert back to the perpetual license later as your key will be deactivated.

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016647837-How-can-I-switch-from-perpetual-license-to-subscription-

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #3 on: January 19, 2023 at 10:45 am

Hi Kevin,

As you know, I choked over the same email. Let me say at the outset I do not treat software or how to use software as a “religion”. To me it is all about operational efficiency and effectiveness, and value-added for the dollar. I have no allegiance to any company or any product, but of course there are some things I like better than others, for reason.

I own a license to C1-2022, which I bought because I thought there would be some advantage in respect of tethered capture and use of camera profiles for my film-negative digitizing set-up. It turned out that between the functioning of Sony Remote (free with the camera) and Negative Lab Pro (an inexpensive marvel), C1 offered nothing I needed in these respects, so it sits unused.

I have heard all manner of stories about its superiority for raw file conversion, and upon testing it versus LR, I’ve come to the conclusion that the only thing which matters for the “develop” functions is the knowledge and experience of the user in handling these products. Both can deliver comparable results when used properly (in fact I’ve known this from the [long past] days of Andrew Rodney’s “Iron Chef” sessions at Photo Expo +). Both have pros and cons in respect of the GUI, so whichever one uses one gets accustomed to both the qualities and limitations.

So then it gets down to the commercial arrangements. The big over-arching issue about raw converters is that none of them can do everything one may wish to do when editing a photograph. There comes a point with some photos when Photoshop remains the best and sometimes only sensible option. An LR subscription comes with Photoshop. For 10 US bucks a month one gets all the conveniences, technical features and storage-saving aspects of LR + the 800-lb. gorilla as an integral part of the package which can be used interactively with LR quite easily. Plus one has the advantage of access to Adobe Bridge for synchronizing certain prepress set-up functions across Adobe applications, or just viewing photos without needing to “catalog” them. There is absolutely nothing on the market that can beat this combo either technically or commercially or from a usability perspective.

So when C1 comes out with a menu of commercial options which reads like a dog’s breakfast and at the bottom line is about 50% more expensive than the Adobe Photographer’s package without delivering nearly as much technical potential, it’s really a no-brainer which way to go. If the people at C1 had any marketing savvy whatsoever, they would have known and applied the “KISS” principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) and had an eye for the competition. But clearly they don’t.

In a way this is unfortunate because technical and commercial competition is good for consumers, to keep the companies delivering and providing value. Competition is impaired when one or more of the contenders for the consumer dollar make decisions which could doom them to extinction.

 

[Paul Sokal Silver Member Posts: 641]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #4 on: January 19, 2023 at 11:31 am

I vowed to never buy another Adobe product when they broke their promise about not turning LR to a subscription. That’s when I switched to C1. I have found it superior for what I do and have consistently updated it until v23 which offered no advantages over 22 for me. This model change is really disappointing and for now I will not spend anymore money on C1 as long as 22 serves my needs. When that fails, I will be forced to make a decision.

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #5 on: January 19, 2023 at 11:38 am

Paul Sokal wrote:

I vowed to never buy another Adobe product when they broke their promise about not turning LR to a subscription. That’s when I switched to C1. I have found it superior for what I do and have consistently updated it until v23 which offered no advantages over 22 for me. This model change is really disappointing and for now I will not spend anymore money on C1 as long as 22 serves my needs. When that fails, I will be forced to make a decision.

I’m curious – could you point out where and when Adobe promised not to introduce a subscription model for their applications?

Also, I’m curious to learn more specifically what you found superior about C1 relative to what you do with the applications, because as I mentioned aboive in my case, which of course may not apply to everyone, I have failed to see really decisive differences when each is used appropriately to how they are meant to work.

[Paul Sokal Silver Member Posts: 641]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #6 on: January 19, 2023 at 1:12 pm

Mark,

Check this article on DPReview from 2017. https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/5431017013/rip-lightroom-6-death-by-subscription-model

The biggest advantage for me with C1 is converting to black and white. I found in high contrast images a lot of fringing or halos (not sure what the best term is here) at the contrast margin. I tried C1 and that issue went away instantly and I’ve never looked back.

Paul

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023 at 1:39 pm

Paul,  Imagine how I feel?  I thought I would never want to leave C1.  And, actually, I’m not just because I have much work tied up in it.  But if I had a choice I would be gone.  Check out my article on the home page.  Capture One did the worst job ever announcing this and gave no benefit that would interest a photographer.  Like forthcoming new changes.  It’s time for me to learn LR a lot better.  Maybe it does BW better.  If not I can always roundtrip into NIK Silverfast.

 

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #8 on: January 19, 2023 at 1:44 pm

So, Mr. Butler says that Adobe said it had no plans to put LR on a subscription basis, with no references; even if Adobe said what Mr. Butler claims, it is not a promise, but rather a statement of intent. Statements of intent are non-committal, so we can put that one aside.

As for LR’s ability to make clean conversions from colour to grayscale, the application offers several ways of doing it, I have used all of them and been doing this for years – never had an incident of halos regardless of the photo’s characteristics. But we all have different experience for different reasons; since all that matters now and going forward is the current version and its successors, I would only suggest that you download a trial, go back to those same raw files in their Import state, and try some conversions now. You may be pleasantly surprised by how good they are.

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #9 on: January 19, 2023 at 1:50 pm

Kevin – you mean NIK SilverEfex Pro. Yes, it’s an option. I’ve reviewed this application a long time ago many versions back and thought it was excellent. More recently I find such plugins  unnecessary because LR does such a good job. The main advantage of the plugins is that they come loaded with presets, which can be helpful but certainly not essential in the hands of people who know what they are doing. Of course LR also has a bunch of B&W presets, and same comment; whenever I try them I find myself complementing them with more edits. NIK’s U-point technology is also handy, but LR’s new masking features give that less of an edge, while to use those plugins it is necessary to make a TIF version of the photo which ends-up consuming at least three times the storage space of a raw file with its XMP. The ying and the yang……

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #10 on: January 19, 2023 at 2:25 pm

All valid points Mark.

 

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Jay Goodrich Participant Posts: 1]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #11 on: January 19, 2023 at 3:25 pm

You know this emoji… 🤦🏽‍♂️ (It’s the one with the guy putting his hand over his face – JIC) it sums up just about every feeling I have right now. I started with Aperture, migrated to Lr, migrated to C1 at version 5, migrated back to Lr because C1 was having issues with my massive Lr catalog at the time, and then went back to C1 at version 12 and have been there ever since. C1 had the ability to process the a7r images that I was taking easier than Lr, so it made sense to use the software. I still prefer the layer and masking features of C1 over Lr. The C1 email actually woke me up at 3am the other morning when it came in and has irritated me ever since.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your article Kevin. It’s just so weird and insanely difficult to understand, it has instantly blown my trust of what is coming from C1 in the future.

I typically update my perpetual license to C1 every year because, well, I like the software. That upgrade price has been a little less than the coming subscription price of $179, but I have basically gotten to choose and make that decision for myself as to whether I wanted the new features or not. When you take choice out of the equation, you have set up the scenario that just about every doomsday movie ever created has done. The Matrix is sitting at the forefront of my mind right now… but I digress.

What really makes me mad about this whole thing, is if I say yes to the subscription, I lose the perpetual license that I technically, already own. So that makes me want to fuck some Capture One people up in a Matrix sort of way.

The C1 software platform appeals to my modern design esthetic, I love using it. It looks great. Allows me to make my photos appear how I want them too. And, has for the most part, been issue free. Their support blows–I have a support issue that is 3 months old and still not solved. Though it is really only a small performance issue, I still feel super neglected. That being said, Adobe isn’t that much better, if you don’t have connections within the ranks, for which I did for many years. I can honestly say that I HATE the UI within Lr. It’s clunky at best. It reminds me of some Windows 98 bullshit. Does it function in the same manner and can I get decent images out of it… OF COURSE, but using it makes me want to grow a mullet, and drive a beater Oldsmobile from the mid-80’s. I like Porsches, Mercedes, and things with lots of carbon and titanium, not rusted out shitboxes that produce smoke shows wherever they go.

So what to do? Hate the new elephant in the room or the old one? I don’t really want to go back to Lr at this point, so I guess I stick with the current situation and just let out a big sigh. Fuck the corporate world in a very Jersey gangster sort of way.

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