[Jed Best Silver Member Posts: 2]

Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

on: January 19, 2023 at 3:59 pm

I have subscriptions to both Lightroom and Capture One, but I am curious about one alternative that seems no one is mentioning. Has anyone who is upset with Capture One and does not want to use Lightroom, thought of using Photo Mechanic Plus with ACR or DXO Photolab?

 

Also, Kevin, if you did switch to LR why would you abandon Imageprint?

 

 

[Mark Hopgood Participant Posts: 3]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #1 on: January 19, 2023 at 6:14 pm

I started with C1 version 6 and switched over for all my editing on version 8 plus a pixel editor.  Although I had all versions of LR, I tended to use PS as my editor utilising luminosity masks with actions to populate several different layers with specific tools I used in most images.  Eventually PS CS6 gave way to Affinity Photo.  As C1 evolved I found I could either complete the editing process or come very close to it in most cases within its environment.  HDR and Panorama excluded.  My style of editing changed because of how the tools functioned in C1 and I felt over the last several years my images were superior to those before, especially when I reprocessed some of them.  I had the opportunity to try LrC last year as members of my photography club wanted me to teach a course in editing and that was the software of choice.  The experience was better than expected although frustrating that several tools would only work globally as opposed to C1.  At the end I was happy with my choice of C1.

Now this.  C1 started to become super expensive in the last few years.  A 60% increase in upgrade pricing over the last 2 years.  Then there are the separate subscriptions for C1 Live and now iPad app. There also seems to have been reduced resources allocated to bringing significant improvements to the main software as evidenced by the underwhelming feature set in the last couple of updates. This plus the change to Licensing that makes a perpetual licence untenable even if you only want bug fixes thereby forcing a customer onto the subscription model.  I definitely feel there has been a noticeable change in the direction of the company and not for the better, certainly not for me.

If I switch to subscription then I lose my licence for C1 22 so I would have to commit for quite a few years and hope they don’t price me out (I’m retired), that they don’t change their new loyalty scheme for the worse and that the software improves and remains competitive with the competition.  The most likely scenario for me is to use my version until it no longer functions then reassess.  I have however bought DXO PL6 at a discount, so I will dabble with that and will also upgrade to Photo Mechanic Plus as a DAM.

There certainly has been a loss of trust in the company based on how this whole sorry saga has played out over the last few months.

[Rand Scott Adams]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #2 on: January 19, 2023 at 7:23 pm

“To me, the worst part of this transition is that if I want to give Capture One’s subscription a try, I lose my perpetual copy of Capture One.  That just doesn’t seem right.”

Yup… whatever “value” there is in owning that license just goes down the drain.  There should have been something like the first year’s subscription paid in full for those with licenses for the latest couple of iterations of the perpetual version.

And “now” compared to the value you get with Adobe for Photoshop, ACR, Bridge and Lightroom Classic for $9.95 / month, C1’s pricing ain’t exactly a bargain.

Rand

Rand Scott Adams Rand47

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Rand Scott Adams.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Rand Scott Adams.

[Louis Foubare Silver Member Posts: 286]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #3 on: January 19, 2023 at 7:32 pm

Extremely disappointing. Kevin thanks for not making me feel alone in my views. Heck, like many, even if I use C1, I still pay the $10month to Adobe. So in the future I can just pay the $10/month and forget C1. Trouble is I like Sessions and never liked the HUGE catalog LR produces.  Many of us will need help making a transition (for me back) to LR. I hate the thought. Just when I thought I had processing down pretty well for myself, here we go again. If C1 drives me away from what I am comfortable doing today and this departure forces me to WASTE time relearning LR, no matter if C1 gives me a license for free, I will never go back to C1.

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1251]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #4 on: January 19, 2023 at 7:33 pm

Jed,  First, No I wouldn’t abandon ImagePrint.  And while having a print module would be and will be nice, I’d still use the same workflow where I output a master tiff file of the image and that is what I print from with IP.  The other programs you mention are OK.. Photo Mechanics is a great program for fast viewing and sorting.  I used it a lot when I would be shooting car races.  RAW processing it just doesn’t cut it like LR and C1.  DXO is good, surprisingly good.  I will be looking at that option more too.  DXO has some pretty cool apps otherwise.

It’s just strange to see my favorite image processor do what they have done.  This introduction was very poor.

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1251]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #5 on: January 19, 2023 at 7:40 pm

Louis, there are a lot of us feeling the paid.  Maybe it would have been a different story if the introduction of this new scheme had been done differently.  Like I said I’ll keep C1 because I teach it and need for workshops or folks using it.  I love C1, and I can zoom through it with ease.  I think I can do well with LR too given a few weeks of practice.  I already am pretty good with it.  I will get Jeff Schewe to help me and we are talking about a tutorial to help folks.  I’ll keep everyone up to date.

[Greg Scott]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #6 on: January 19, 2023 at 7:43 pm

Kevin helped a very long time ago when I first entertained the idea of moving my RAW processing to Capture One.  Recently I have been impressed with what is possible in ACR (Adobe camera RAW) and have considered moving back to an Adobe environment given all my finish editing already happens in PS.  The recent message from the C1 folks is confusing.  I read it last night and set it aside to think about it.  So, Kevin’s article is very timely.

I am seriously considering a move away from C1.  I have a perpetual license so I should be good in terms of access to images I processed in C1.  I appreciate and value the comments that have already been submitted and will be monitoring this thread until I make a final decision.

On the road less traveled....

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Greg Scott.

[George Klass Participant Posts: 5]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023 at 8:08 pm

I have purchased several versions of C1 over the past few years and whilst an excellent piece of software it requires quite some learning and practice to use it to full advantage. Since they started to play around with pricing and now with this latest missive I will stop using it. I use adobe’s photography plan and am  very familiar with Lightroom and PS. Together with NIK and Topaz my full needs are met. Goodbye Capture 1 and wishing you success.

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 871]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #8 on: January 19, 2023 at 8:33 pm

Louis Foubare wrote:

Extremely disappointing. Kevin thanks for not making me feel alone in my views. Heck, like many, even if I use C1, I still pay the $10month to Adobe. So in the future I can just pay the $10/month and forget C1. Trouble is I like Sessions and never liked the HUGE catalog LR produces.  Many of us will need help making a transition (for me back) to LR. I hate the thought. Just when I thought I had processing down pretty well for myself, here we go again. If C1 drives me away from what I am comfortable doing today and this departure forces me to WASTE time relearning LR, no matter if C1 gives me a license for free, I will never go back to C1.

Louis, there are TONS of free resources all over the Internet on using Lightroom, and if you want something that’s more formally structured, very accessible, my two stand-byes are Lightroom Queen’s “FAQ” (plus other Lightroom Queen resources) and the late Martin Evening’s “The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic Book.”

Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

[Bruce Herman Participant Posts: 5]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #9 on: January 19, 2023 at 8:38 pm

I have no opinion about C1 and don’t view Adobe’s software offerings as the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I also don’t have any comment on how C1 introduced its subscription model.  I am writing this as someone who for a couple of decades used software that cost over $100K/seat just to get it in the door and even then required an annual subscription (15%/yr).  I also have done my share of software development although only for use by my team.  But this taught me what it takes to write software that will be used by someone else.

You all need to quit whining.

The costs of software development are HUGE.  Costs include not just R&D for new features, but keeping up with changing operating systems, hardware platforms (including graphics hardware and software), and all while maintaining the software on older systems.  We are now in a world where the software, its databases, and delivery services for that software and its online databases have to be shielded from malware attacks.  And then there is tech support.  I’m surprised that there are any established software companies that continue to exist without either a subscription model or a requirement that the software is updated each year (think tax software).

For those who say they are happy with version X and don’t need to upgrade, I would guess that you don’t plan to upgrade your OS, either.  Nor do you have concerns about your computer becoming a bot due to malware as its OS ages and becomes more vulnerable.  Given that you’re using the internet to read this, you clearly can’t claim to be immune.  I have no sympathy for you.

Keep in mind that Adobe, C1’s owner,and the other software purveyors are not non-profit organizations.  Publically owned companies have to answer to shareholders who have expectations around profitability.  Privately held companies have to raise funds from private investors that have to be repaid in such a manner that those investors make a healthy profit relative to the risk.

I abhore the salaries US companies pay their CEO’s but my votes against them are among the minority.  H1-B software developers are being paid better than they were, but still not what their US counterparts are paid.  When all developers are paid the same for the same capability, expect costs to increase.  Costs will continue to increase as developers reassess their priorities and increasingly refuse to work 60+ hour weeks.

From my perspective, the Adobe $10/mo photography subscription is dirt cheap even with its shortcomings, especially when you consider the rate of new feature development.  I don’t use C1, and can’t comment on whether $15/mo is a good value.  I suspect they weren’t arbitrary given that they had to know they would lose clients during the transition.

I have some sympathy for folks with a limited and fixed income.  I can’t comment on your financial priorities.  But prices are only going up from here.

 

[John Brawley]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #10 on: January 19, 2023 at 9:00 pm

I signed up just to post because I’m so angry.

I love using C1.  It does things that haven’t been able to match as easily in other platforms, especially local adjustments and skin tone tools.  Yes you can eventually get the same result but they make it much faster and easier.

I’ve resisted the change to subscription and have appreciated that you can still buy the full version.  But…

I’ve noticed over the past few years, this has become a subscription by stealth anyway.   I’m not sure that there have been any major improvements in the past few years that have justified the yearly upgrade but I’ve dutifully kept buying the new version just to keep OS compatible.

I even got sucked into buying an EARLY update before it was even ready and feel stupid for having done so.  Because now after I’ve bought this yearly update in December, that version will longer be supported past February, and if you do go to subscription, then you loose access to your old full versions.

That’s really shady. I’ve downloaded DXO, and I’m looking at darktable too.

I don’t even care if they don’t have the same specific function that I’ll miss.  I can’t support a company that screws their customers over like this.

My day job is working in film and television production.  The equivalent to Photoshop for final colour is a program called DaVinci Resolve made by Blackmagic Design.  I’m sure it has a much smaller installed user base, but it’s used on the majority of the higher end film and tv you’re all watching right now for final colour post.

Like Phase One they are also a company that sells hardware to a family similar niche market in terms of numbers.

I’ve been using Resolve since V9 and they are currently on V18.  I’ve NEVER paid for a yearly upgrade.  They update it every new months constantly adding new features.  They also make a FREE version that has no limitations other than some very specific ones that are aimed at very high end productions (like 3D, using multiple GPUs for rendering)

I’m not suggesting you can use this for stills but it’s a similar product in an adjacent category selling for a similar price.  Totally different approach.  Anyone can download the same software being used on huge films and TV shows right now.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve

Grant Petty the CEO of BMD had this to say recently…

“Cloud licensors are like slumlords,” he gripes, referring to competitors Adobe and Avid. “You have to keep buying from me and the more you’re loyal, the more you’ll get penalized. It’s like your dog does something nice and you beat it with a stick.”

So I’m saying goodbye to C1, not because it’s a bad product, but because it’s a bad company.

JB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by John Brawley.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by John Brawley.

[Greg Scott Participant Posts: 25]

Re: Capture One’s NEW License Options (Terrible)

Reply #11 on: January 19, 2023 at 9:01 pm

The cost of the software isn’t an issue for me.  As a former IT manager of a software development group, I agree that nothing is static in the world of software.  Giving up software updates also means no access to RAW profiles for new cameras.  I am simply trying to fully understand the implications of both C1 options and the consequences of a significant change in my workflow.

One of the real values if C1 is the ability to make targeted adjustments using layers and their masking options are also pretty good.  All of this makes the decision more complicated.  Each of us has a different mix of needs / desires that we have to weigh in making a decision.

On the road less traveled....

[Author]

Posts