P800 UPPPG color shift issue

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    Topic: P800 UPPPG color shift issue Read 1005 Times
  • Jim Newberry
    Jim Newberry
    Participant
    Posts: 5
    Epson Printers
    on: May 7, 2021 at 3:10 pm

    I have an Epson P800 printer along with decent calibrated monitor (and I’m very experienced with inkjet printing). I’m having trouble getting accurate color using Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy. I have a lot of that paper at the moment, so would like to figure this out.

    I’m getting pale/pink fleshtones with UPPPG paper. Printing same image on Epson Hot Press Bright, or Red River Ultra Pro Gloss, color looks great.

    Anyone else have this problem?

    I’m using Epson’s P800 profile, Premium Photo Paper Glossy, which is what they recommend (I checked with support, there’s no Ultra PPG profile.)

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 133
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #1 on: May 7, 2021 at 3:16 pm

    First: You should always test output using good color reference images designed for that task. The color reference images RGB values are such they are set for output and are editing and display agnostic. Test the output this way and examine for the same color issues so we know it’s not your image specific issues causing the problems.

    http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

    Next, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘accurate’ color. If you have the tools (a Spectrophotometer and tools like ColorThink Pro or similar), you can print and measure then analyze the full print and profile path for colorimetric accuracy but its not a simple process.

    NOT all of Epson’s profiles are created equally too:

    Not all ICC profiles are created equally

    In this 23 minute video, I’ll cover:

    The basic anatomy of ICC Profiles

    Why there are differences in profile quality and color rendering

    How to evaluate an ICC output profile

    Examples of good and not so good canned profiles and custom profiles on actual printed output. 

    High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4

    Low resolution (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdR_tIFMME&feature=youtu.be

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 447
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #2 on: May 7, 2021 at 3:22 pm

    You likely need a custom profile.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Jim Newberry
    Jim Newberry
    Participant
    Posts: 5
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #3 on: May 7, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    Thanks for the reply Andrew; I’ll watch that video and download that file.

    Next, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘accurate’ color.

    I don’t mean scientifically accurate, I mean reasonably similar (for my use) to what I see on my calibrated monitor. I’ve been using Epson printers for many years, and can almost always get prints that look quite similar to the way they do on my monitor. And like I said, I’m able to get good (to me) color with same image on two other papers.

    I’m not looking for perfection here, but wondered if there was a known issue with UPPPG paper, especially with P 800.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 447
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #4 on: May 7, 2021 at 3:32 pm

    I don’t know of any known issue with this paper and any Epson professional printer. It really sounds like a profiling problem from your description of context.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 133
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #5 on: May 7, 2021 at 3:47 pm

    What is the exact name of the profile from Epson you’re using.

    I too have a P800 but I’m not seeing any of Epson’s installed under Big Sur; I may have just deleted them all since I only use custom profiles.

    Any chance there’s a “V2” in the name?

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Jim Newberry
    Jim Newberry
    Participant
    Posts: 5
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #6 on: May 7, 2021 at 6:38 pm

    You likely need a custom profile…I don’t know of any known issue with this paper and any Epson professional printer. It really sounds like a profiling problem from your description of context.

    Thanks  Mark; I’m definitely going to look into making a custom profile.

    What is the exact name of the profile from Epson you’re using.

    I too have a P800 but I’m not seeing any of Epson’s installed under Big Sur; I may have just deleted them all since I only use custom profiles.

    Any chance there’s a “V2” in the name?

    I do  have some V2 profiles, but not for PPPG; is V2 preferred, or did you think that might be causing the issue?

    Exact profile name I’m using: SC-P800 Series Premium Photo Paper Glossy. There is a (2)–not V2–at the end of the name, it looks like I have duplicate profiles, I’ll try deleting one. But neither has “V2.”

     

     

     

     

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 133
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #7 on: May 7, 2021 at 7:11 pm

    Right; the V2 profiles are really good. Built with i1Profiler in USA. The other’s are not and as you may see in my video, have issues handling out of gamut blue mapping for one. That *may* be one issue….

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 447
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #8 on: May 7, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    The (2) you are seeing likely means that the same profile is sitting in both your System Profiles Library and your User Profiles Library, so when they come up in your print application a “2” is appended to the name of one of them. It unlikely has anything to do with V2 or V4.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 447
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #9 on: May 7, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    All my custom profiles are V4 and I have no issues with any of them; made with i1Profiler, previously with in i1Pro2 and more recently an i1Pro 3 or a MYIRO using their software. From the point of view of just looking at prints, I’m not convinced the V2 versus V4 business is any longer worth the time people used to spend agonizing over it – and I doubt whether this is John’s problem.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Mark D Segal.
    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 133
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #10 on: May 7, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    To be clear; I’m referring simply to the name of a profile, not the version of the profile spec.

    V4 profiles don’t do anything useful; I know of no software, certainly from X-rite that supports the PRMG. As such, all a V4 profile spec provides is incompatibilities with some software products.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 447
    Re: P800 UPPPG color shift issue
    Reply #11 on: May 7, 2021 at 7:22 pm

    Don’t want to wander too far from John’s issue, but just curious Andrew – current software products that you use for printing? Most of my printing is out of LR, and a limited amount from PS when I need ABSCOL R.I. for testing purposes; neither of these applications, nor the CMM in MacOS show any problems I’ve encountered  working with V4 profiles.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

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