Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers

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    Topic: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers Read 225 Times
  • Renzo Jaya
    Renzo Jaya
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    Posts: 13
    Epson Printers
    on: January 20, 2022 at 11:52 am

    I hope to learn from the responses to the post. Epson for instance offers both Dye Sublimation Printers and Surecolor Photo series of printers. Most digital images, especially when advanced amateurs or professionals print their images themselves, seem to be printed on the Surecolor Photo series (such as 3880, P 900, P 5000 etc.) using RGB. However, commercial printers seem to use dye subs in the CMYK color space. I realize that the inks are different but the questions I have (and want to remove the confusion) are:

    1. Is the identification of RGB with Photo Series (self-printing) and CMYK with Dye sub (commercial) a hard and fast rule (does pigment vs dye play a role)?

    2. If I am not printing on transfer paper for using on metal, glass etc. but a photographic print, can I use the same paper I use on a 3880 (e.g. Luster or Hot Press Bright) on a Epson Dye Sub printer? Are icc profiles available for popular Epson papers used for RGB printers for printing on Epson Dye Sub printers? Or are the papers for image on paper very different in the two cases?

    3. Is the print quality and resolution and print permanance comparable using the two methods? Or is cost the issue?

    4. If the two methods give comparable prints at comparable cost, why isn’t more self printing done on Dye Sub printers? Is it a marketing push for the printer manufacturers that they make more money selling pigment based ink ink?

    I am more than a bit muddled in trying to reconcile the differences but hopefully I can get a clearer picture after I read the responses.

    Thanks.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 650
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #1 on: January 20, 2022 at 12:27 pm

    This article provides interesting insights on dye-sub versus inkjet. I have never used a dye-sub printer so cannot comment first-hand:

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye-sublimation_printing

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
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    Posts: 292
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #2 on: January 20, 2022 at 1:03 pm

    The rule as to RGB vs. CMYK  being sent is totally based upon the print driver, not how the printer or colorant is used. Quickdraw and GDI drivers don’t understand CMYK; you must ‘feed‘ them RGB data.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Dan Berg
    Dan Berg
    Participant
    Posts: 4
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #3 on: February 6, 2022 at 1:06 pm

    We have a nice size dye sub operation with the Epson dye sub cmyk F570 and a converted Epson p8000 with 8 color dye sublimation inkset.

    You cannot use any photo or fineart inkjet papers for dye sublimation. We mostly use the Epson ds paper and one from Conde Systems our dye sub supplier.

    Since the Epson f570 is manufactured as a dye sub printers several profiles come with the driver. DTG has about 6 that can be downloaded and used with the f570 for different textile colors.

    We converted the P8000 from new into a 44″ dye sub printer, it is excellent. We made our own profiles with our i1 Photo Pro spectro.

    Any additional questions fire away.

    Dan Berg
    www.bergscanvasgallery.com

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by Dan Berg.
    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
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    Posts: 292
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #4 on: February 6, 2022 at 1:32 pm

    Any additional questions fire away.

    How are the dyes sublimating?

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Dan Berg
    Dan Berg
    Participant
    Posts: 4
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #5 on: February 8, 2022 at 11:05 am

    Do you mean how is the P8000 (Or F570) working out as a dye sub printer?

    Dan Berg
    www.bergscanvasgallery.com

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
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    Posts: 292
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #6 on: February 8, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    No, the question is how are the dyes undergoing the sublimation?

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Dan Berg
    Dan Berg
    Participant
    Posts: 4
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #7 on: February 11, 2022 at 8:55 pm

    The Epson oem dye sub ink on the 570 and the Ink Owl Ultra dye sub inks on the P8000 are about identical.  The color prints between the two printers are very close. CMYK color prints a very good job with Epson’s profiles. The B&W 570 prints  seem to always have a color cast, mostly greenish. The P8000 with the 8 inks is a little better but subject to colorcasts as well even with my custom made profiles.  Not sure I have answered your question or not?  Are you wanting information on the process where the print is taped to the substrate  in a heat press under a specific time temperature and pressure. 400 F, 1:30 and Medium pressure 55 pounds., for most. Or are you looking for an explanation about dye sub ink passing from a solid state through the gasous state without turning into a liquid?

    Picture of two of our presses. 20×25 and 32×42. We just bought a 40×60 for larger commercial metal prints. No one in our area has one that size so thought it might be a good buy.

     

    Dan Berg
    www.bergscanvasgallery.com

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 292
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #8 on: February 11, 2022 at 9:33 pm

    Are you wanting information on the process where the print is taped to the substrate  in a heat press under a specific time temperature and pressure.

    Yes, exactly what I was wondering about. And the temperature consistency which if not really spot on, might be the issue with the profiling. That seems to be a ‘weak link’. I’ve profiled similar processes in the past but all I ever saw was the final product (patches to measure), not how that was produced.

     

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Dan Berg
    Dan Berg
    Participant
    Posts: 4
    Re: Dye Sublimation Printers compared to Photo Inkjet Printers
    Reply #9 on: February 13, 2022 at 9:53 am

    Now I am on the same page . The suggested time temp and pressure can all be set exactly as the book says and results can still vary when pressed. I have new Knight heat presses and have checked the entire heated platen with my heat gun and it is good on all three presses. Here is where inconsistencies can creep in. The Chromaluxe we use is hi gloss white base. When reading anything with our spectro that has a gloss it is the i1’s weakest point. Just not made to read those hi gloss substrates on a consistent basis. I worked for a week to get a good grayscale profile on metal and never really nailed it. B&W metal prints are about the toughest thing to get without some kind of colorcast. Seems to always be greenish. Green cast in dye sublimation can be a bad profile or under cooked in the press.. Brown is over cooked. To start with you have the spectro reading a grayscale metal print chart with potentially a greenish color cast. It is asking too much to expect that profile to be perfect. Garbage in garbage out. I have gone through several hundred dollars worth of small metal blanks working on Black &W profiles still unsuccessfully.

     

     

    Dan Berg
    www.bergscanvasgallery.com

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by Dan Berg.
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