C1 – Price Increase?

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    Topic: C1 – Price Increase? Read 1165 Times
  • Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Silver Member
    Posts: 182
    Capture One
    on: December 6, 2022 at 5:53 pm

    If I understand this correctly, after v23 you always have to pay full price to get new features? Or just go into subscription, which I never wanted and therefore went away from Lightroom.

    If I understood that correctly, that would be an unpleasant development from my point of view.

    Oliver

     

    http://www.riwodot.de/vorsitzender.html

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 726
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #1 on: December 6, 2022 at 6:12 pm

    Oliver: The subscription model is good. I’ve been using it for years. The annual sum of the monthly charges is much cheaper than what we used to pay for upgrades of Photoshop and Lightroom. The service has been reliable, and you don’t lose your photos or previous edits if you stop subscribing and revert to your most recent outdated indefinite license version. I really don’t see a downside to this despite all the arguments and controversies I have read in the past. I think most people have accommodated themselves to the “new reality”.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Silver Member
    Posts: 182
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #2 on: December 7, 2022 at 5:05 am

    Hello Mark,

    you will probably have to accept this, since almost all manufacturers are now doing this. Since the effort to change to a different software, if you want to do so at all, is also considerable, a change is rarely worthwhile economically and in terms of the time required.

    Nevertheless, I freely admit to being a friend of buying licenses instead of renting software.

    This week I had a conversation with one of our license managers (enterprise environment) and he also told me that there are hardly any purchase licenses left and almost everything is done via subscription. A very unpleasant side effect, by the way, is that financial locusts have recognized the value of maintenance contracts for such licenses or even subscriptions, and are taking over large software companies and then massively raising the prices for maintenance. A better short-term return is hard to get elsewhere today. Now there are big migration projects going on everywhere ;).

    Oliver

    http://www.riwodot.de/vorsitzender.html

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 726
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #3 on: December 7, 2022 at 8:55 am

    Hi Oliver,

    I’m pleased that there is competition to Adobe based on the general principle that competition is healthy for sustaining product quality and economy. And changing from Adobe to any other image editing software is not necessarily all that expensive or troublesome – learning time, no doubt, but not terribly challenging. All that said, I have not found a serious reason to migrate away from the Lightroom/Photoshop package I am now “renting”. It does everything I need and a lot more in one reasonably integrated (though imperfectly) package. Nor have I seen “financial locusts” swarming around the Adobe package. They have not increased the price, at least here in North America, since the day they launched the Photography Bundle some years ago, while at the same time these products have become more efficient and more feature-rich with every update. I have to believe they are keeping their shareholders happy, but at the same time I think there is much their customers should be happy about as well. So far, at least in this case, overall it seems to me like a generally good story.

    As for Capture One, well fine, they have their own strategy – perhaps they are trying to wean their customers off the traditional perpetual license model, and if it satisfies both them and most of their customers, so be it, the inevitable has happened there too. As you say, everyone’s doin’ it. 🙂

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Kevin Raber
    Kevin Raber
    Silver Member
    Posts: 1110
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #4 on: December 7, 2022 at 12:19 pm

    Well, this came as a surprise to me but not totally unexpected.  As mentioned it seems everyone is doing it.  We pay for a lot of things like electric, gas etc on a monthly basis.  More and more software and apps are doing the subscription model and a a business strategy it makes sense.  In my opinion this is was inevitable. A lot of folks weren’t happy with Adobe when they did it but they are still there.  I am on an Adobe model for their complete suite since I use many of their products.  They make it painless to get updates and keep up on all my machines.

    With Capture One now having iPad versions which are $5 USD a month I could see that the desktop version or a model including both was on the horizon.

    I use LR and C1 and C1 is my main go to RAW processor.  Both are excellent and LR has made some major forward leaps with their latest version.  C1 still offers a lot of flexibility in custom UI as well as many tools.  It’s probally a mater of time before they have some of the AI capability that LR has in auto masking.  In my opinion you have to be careful not to see saw too much when it comes to these things.

    For now I am doing a lot of learning in LR trying to figure out if it can fit into my workflow.

    Kevin Raber
    CEO & Publisher of PhotoPXL.com and Rockhopperworkshops.com

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 309
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #5 on: December 7, 2022 at 2:32 pm

    Yes, you understand this correctly.

    As for Lightroom Classic and it’s subscription, at least if you stop subscribing, all modules except Develop and Maps continue to work. You do not lose your DAM. You can print, use Quick Edits in Library etc.

    C1, no idea.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

    Remko Stibbe
    Remko Stibbe
    Participant
    Posts: 1
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #6 on: December 9, 2022 at 2:29 pm

    Oliver: The subscription model is good. I’ve been using it for years. The annual sum of the monthly charges is much cheaper than what we used to pay for upgrades of Photoshop and Lightroom. The service has been reliable, and you don’t lose your photos or previous edits if you stop subscribing and revert to your most recent outdated indefinite license version. I really don’t see a downside to this despite all the arguments and controversies I have read in the past. I think most people have accommodated themselves to the “new reality”.

    Mark,

    What you are saying is true for Lightroom, not so for CO. If you are on subscription, when you stop it you have no access at all to CO. Not to your edits, and not to your photos if you imported them into catalogs and/or sessions. It is even worse; the moment you switch from a perpetual license to a subscription, your perpetual license becomes invalid. So you can not fall back on your old license and version of CO when you stop your subscription.

    That way subscribing to CO is not a clever thing to do! Apart from the fact that a subscription was more expensive than a perpetual license.

    cheers,

    Remko

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Remko Stibbe.
    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 726
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #7 on: December 9, 2022 at 2:39 pm

    Forum posting not working – this is a test.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 726
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #8 on: December 9, 2022 at 2:42 pm

    OK, seems to be back. Remko, to be clear I was writing in the context of the Lightroom & Photoshop photography bundle. I have a perpetual C1 2022 license that I bought to test certain specialized features. I hardly use it, as I don’t see that C1 provides the scope of integrated capabilities I obtain from the Adobe bundle relevant to my needs, so I did not research optimal ways of obtaining it. If C1 is not offering the kind of access flexibility that Adobe offers, I would view that as a considerable competitive downside.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Oliver Ritter-Wolff
    Silver Member
    Posts: 182
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #9 on: December 11, 2022 at 8:14 am

    The topic is now discussed in detail in many photo gazettes and forums, similar to what happened when Adobe surprisingly announced the end of the license purchase version after Lightroom 6 Classic.

    As in this place, arguments for and against are exchanged. The whole thing has of course also economic but also very many individual-subjective and various other aspects that can be discussed sufficiently.

    When we got into digital photography around 2003, one of my first RAW converters was Capture One (C1) and I still remember the training I received from Renate Lange at the PhaseOne office in Cologne. The combination of C1 and Adobe Photoshop was with me until Adobe launched Lightroom (LR), which was a fully integrated package that allowed me to organize and manage my images very well.

    In addition, I – like many others – allowed myself the luxury in the following years to try out other licenses for RAW converters and also to buy licenses from them, if the respective RAW converter offered me advantages over LR or also C1 at one point or another. This was always expensive but as long as you could wait for two or three major versions until you had to update to get the cheaper update conditions instead of having to buy the full version again, this was acceptable from my point of view at that time.

    When the discontinuation of the purchase license was announced by Adobe, it was exactly the time when I had purchased the Fuji XT and GFX systems and noticed that the XT files were not so convincing to develop with LR and it came to image artifacts. Fuji files developed with C1 were much better and did not show these problems. In addition, C1 now had an additional DAM function and a catalog import from LR to offer and so the then seemingly conclusive idea matured to transfer the image management from LR to C1 and make C1 the central hub of image processing.

    The problems described elsewhere with my large C1 catalog (database), which I got in the last few years twice very unpleasant to feel, with the current statement of C1 support better to use smaller catalogs on an annual basis, as well as still existing disadvantages of the C1 DAM functions compared to LR and the possibility of old Fuji-XT files now with the Iridient X-Transformer so preconfigured, that these are to be developed also with LR very well and the development described above that in the meantime nearly each software goes or will go the subscription way, let me meanwhile doubt that the decision at that time to shift the emphasis from LR to C1 was correct.

    Since I would currently have to put a lot of work into the new annual catalogs because of my recently relived C1 catalog problems, the LR catalogs of my uncle and friend Dieter Riecke, who unfortunately died years ago, are all still available in LR, the question currently arises for me whether I should rebuild on my LR catalogs of 2018 and otherwise abandon all RAW converters, except for the Iridient X-Transformer (for my many Fuji files) and maybe Skylum AI (because of the very good replacement functions)? I haven’t made up my mind yet, but it’s a serious consideration.

    Another advantage is that the workflow described by Mark here on photopxl could be used with “Negative Lab Pro”, a way that is closed with C1 and makes a more complex workflow with the use of several software tools more expensive.

    Perhaps this kind of software consolidation is the right way to go after we have increasingly consolidated and condensed in the hardware area as well over the last 3 years, interrupted by not insignificant health implications. In the printing area, we have successively gone down from 24″, then to 17″ and now recently to 13″ and have purchased the Epson SC-P700, which we want to supplement in 2023 with an Epson ET-8550, which is then planned with Farbenwerk carbon inks exclusively for grayscale printing. In the future, we will mainly print 13″ (DIN A3+) and only outsource larger print jobs to a service provider if they are required.

    In the area of camera systems, we have also consolidated more and more over the last few years and have now turned four systems running in parallel into just one in order to simplify things here as well. My wife photographed since the film times continuously with Nikon systems, which I also used for many years (analog and digital), but that in addition to many other brands that I have used in the last 30 years.

    Most recently, I was parallel to my wife with the Canon R system on the road, which has very good cameras and associated lenses with the R3, R5 and R6 in the market. But still, it was now also here to make a decision, do we continue with Canon or Nikon as the sole system. In the end, the decision fell on Nikon a few weeks ago. Since the systems hardly differ in terms of image quality and each system makes excellent image results possible, there were other reasons that led to the decision:

    • Unfortunately, Canon has installed the electronic displays on the side to fold out on the R cameras. With an L-bracket, which I like to use on tripods, this is unfortunately an absolute “no go”, because this does not fit, because the display is locked and can actually only be used in the folded state, meaning the mobility of the same is enormously limited.
    • Nikon service in Cologne/Düsseldorf is faster for me to reach, like that of Canon in Krefeld, if this should be necessary once.
    • Canon unfortunately locks out AF lenses from Sigma and Tamron for the R-mount completely, while there are now also first Tamron lenses coming for Nikon and Sigma is probably about to offer lenses for the Z-mount.
    • Canon R-equipment prices have risen significantly in recent months. Nikon Z equipment, which was on our radar, is noticeably cheaper in Germany.

    Ultimately, all of this led us to consolidate everything towards Nikon, leaving us with only one system in use. In the meantime, I find this a real relief!

    We also agreed to stay within a maximum of 45 to 60MP resolution, which is perfectly sufficient for our output sizes, in order to avoid follow-up costs and investments in the IT workflow.

    As described elsewhere here, we had a lot of IT equipment failures in the last week, which gave up the ghost one after the other – after 10-14 years – and had to be replaced at considerable cost and effort.

    So we are solidly positioned for the coming years on the hardware side and now we have to think again how the alignment and consolidation in the area of photo software can look like.

    Oliver

     

    http://www.riwodot.de/vorsitzender.html

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 726
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #10 on: December 11, 2022 at 10:10 am

    Oliver, On the software side I have only two thoughts about all this:

    (1) Adobe’s camera profiles are usually good; however if you find a particular profile lacking you have two options: (a) notify Adobe about the issue so they can improve it, or (b) use basICColor Input 6 to make your own camera profile – it will be correct and specific to your camera.

    (2) Nobody else offers the integrated processing power and flexibility available in the Adobe Photography Bundle of LR and PS. To make the most efficient use of the Lightroom component, it is advisable to spend the time needed to properly organize your Lightroom catalog to include in ONE catalog all the folders of photos that you think you will ever need to go back to in the future.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Andrew Rodney
    Andrew Rodney
    Participant
    Posts: 309
    Re: C1 – Price Increase?
    Reply #11 on: December 11, 2022 at 1:28 pm

    A third option for .DCP profiles that will cost nothing:  the free DNG Profile Editor can do this if you have a supported MacBeth ColorChecker but its really old, buggy, and no longer supported. If you have the target, you can download the free ColorChecker  Passport software from X-rite.

    This site oddly doesn’t want me to post the URL from X-rite but it exists!

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

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