[John Sadowsky Participant Posts: 169]

New Article Announcements & Discussions

on: December 17, 2020 at 10:41 am

Thanks to Kevin for a great overview of Luminar AI.

In order to gain some insight into what’s going on inside a program like Luminar, it is worthwhile to look at the extreme – which is Google’s Deep Dream.  This video explains Deep Dream processing that walks through examples starting with a landscape image.  What can happen when you tell a neural net to distort a pastoral landscape to look more like cats?  Watch and find out.

Here are some really wild Deep Dream videos: video 1 and video 2 – Warning!  Do not watch these under the influence of psychedelic drugs.

Use this link Deep Dream Generator to subscribe to the online service that allows you to apply this technology to your images.  I just did some free trials – to get the full capacity you need to subscribe to a monthly plan.  I attached my original image and two Deep Dream modifications here.  The tool offers a variety of styles with different strength levels.

Kevin – if you are interested, I’ll buy a Deep Dream subscription and write a PhotoPXL review article.

If you are interested in learning more about AI in general, and its potential threats to humanity, I recommend the book by leading AI researcher Stuart Russel – Human Capatible: Artificial Intelligence and the Problem of Control.  This podcast debate between Stuart Russell and Steve Pinker is also very interesting.

JSS

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020 at 12:17 pm

John, Sure go ahead and doa review on Deep Dream.  Interesting times fro technology.

 

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Ken Rennie Participant Posts: 153]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #2 on: December 17, 2020 at 2:38 pm

I watched the demo with increasing horror. Keven you demonstrated it well and I got a good insight into what it could do but most of what it does isn’t for me. It could be a natural reaction to modern technology that threatens to deskill but I would prefer to return or wait for nicer light or a better sky but I am in the fortunate position of not having to sell my images. I am not a complete Luddite and welcomed the change from CPM to MSDOS to Windows even if I still own records and a record player. I noted that most/ all? of the participants were male and of an age but are we still trying to make women look like Barbie? I am not above changing a sky or adding a touch of oomph to an image but Luminar almost looks like a return to the bad old early days of Photomatix . Perhaps, in time, it may be able to produce subtle images, if the market desires, but I can see it only as a very quick way of producing impact for social media posting. How long before we have seen every replacement sky and inappropriate god ray? An increasingly curmudgeon like  Ken

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #3 on: December 17, 2020 at 6:57 pm

Ken, As I said durih the program and in my upcoming article this changes everything.  Even photoshop now has tools to replace the sky and been morph someone by decades.   It’s all part of where things are going whether you like it or now.  Yes, as I mentioned too, it’s like the HDR craze from a number of years ago.  It is also good for photography because many people will now at least try to make their images better.

As photographers, we need to pick our tools.  I am an early adapter.  Doesn’t always mean I like what I adapt to but I do make the leap.  Just think it wasn’t ago we had no autofocus.  Now we have autofocus that locks onto an eye and can keep up with fast movements that we couldn’t do manually.

Luminar AI is worth looking at and playing with as it pretty amazing what it can do.  Yes, you do have control and you can dial a lot of things back.  But this program will do things in seconds that we used to struggle with for hours, like opening eyes or thinning someone down.

We have to find our place and find a place for this technology.  It’s only going to get better from here.  I am playing with it and actually finding it kind of fun.  For $99.00 it’s not going to break the bank and it will allow us especially while we are stuck inside to revisit some of our images and have a go at something different.

Keep an open mind!

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Mike Nelson Pedde]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #4 on: December 18, 2020 at 1:40 am

I’m with Ken on this. Not that I’m putting down new ideas/ new trends or technology, but I know what photography means to me as an artist. I look at what people like Corey Barker or Bert Monroy can do with a tablet and I’m in awe of them. People like John Paul Caponigro have been pushing what Photoshop can do for years. And that’s great, for them. It’s just not for me. When extreme tonemapping became a thing, Vincent Versace started labeling his work XDR instead of HDR, just to stand apart.

As I tell beginning photographers, if you’re shooting for a client, the client gets to decide what the final image looks like. If you’re shooting for yourself, you get to decide what the final image looks like. Camera, filters, lenses, computers… they’re just tools. There’s enough room in the sandbox for all of us. 🙂

Mike.

_____
Mike Nelson Pedde
Victoria, BC
https://www.wolfnowl.com/

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Mike Nelson Pedde.

[Henry Stoffel Participant Posts: 2]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #5 on: December 18, 2020 at 10:02 pm

Kevin

Is there a recorded version of the webinar available?

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #6 on: December 18, 2020 at 10:49 pm

Yes, it will be up early next week.  There is also a separate article I am working on too with another video.

 

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Greg Scott Participant Posts: 25]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #7 on: December 22, 2020 at 8:29 pm

I have been part of a discussion hosted by Skylum in early November.  This gave me early access to the release code around Dec 10th.  In the beginning, I had high expectations.  I have had very good results with AI products from Topaz solving problems with noise, sharpening and upscaling small images.  I use Luminar 4 in a very limited way but have had problems with the sky replacement and have reverted to Photoshop where I have more control.

Like Kevin, I use Capture One for all my RAW processing and then export to Photoshop for final polishing.  In this context I use plug-ins from Skylum and Topaz.  After experimenting with Luminar AI, I have concluded it is designed to be attractive to people new to photography or are interested is fast easy results.  It does not support layers or offer anything approaching Photoshop’s options for selections.  Skylum has also changed their licensing.  When you buy Luminar 4, you get a license for two computers.  With Luminar AI, you get a license for one computer and have to pay if you want to use it on additional computers.

People like Kevin and Ignacio have convinced me the real art in photography happens after you take the picture.  Processing is where the magic begins and like many endeavors, time and a slow thoughtful process enhances the final outcome.  I need to live with an image for a while, reflect on what I have created, explore different versions and consider the story I am attempting to convey.  Sometimes this takes hours but often the reflective process can take days even weeks.

Until now, I have recommended Skylum products to new photographers because I like their products.  New releases tend to come quickly and they have been very affordable.  With Luminar AI I sense the company is making a fundamental shift in their marketing strategy.  I like AI as a tool that makes my work easier.  However, I do not want to sacrifice control and flexibility that other tools already offer.  Layers, masks, selection options are examples of my workflow tools that I am not prepared to sacrifice.

On the road less traveled....

[Kevin Raber Silver Member Posts: 1311]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020 at 8:54 pm

Well said, Greg.  I knew this Ai thing was going to be a bit controversial.  Parts of me like it and other parts don’t.  I’ll continue to mess around with it and get to know it better.  However, I don’t see me changing my workflow because of it.  Luminar Ai as you mention is for people who may have never processed an image before.  To these folks they will be creating masterpiece they wouldn’t have thought possible.  Ai is here to stay though and it will permiate more of what we do photographically in the future.  Fun times, scary times, exciting times for sure.

Kevin Raber
Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

[Kevin Raber]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020 at 5:16 pm

Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020 at 5:16 pm
Someone who knows AI better than I should correct this if I am wrong, but as I understand this, AI in an application such as this means:

1. Getting a huge training set of images that someone (not you) deems good and bad.

2. Training the computer on that set so that it can discover the underlying patterns, many previously not explicit, that correlate with that particular standard of “goodness”. There can be many of these, hence many filters or presets.

3. Creating models or algorithms that allow the software to apply whichever of the algorithms you choose, imposing all those patterns on your image.

This reminds me of a half-tongue-in cheek suggestion a techie I know made when he was trying to learn photography, with a focus on travel photography. He said there should no longer any reason for travelers to fuss with trying to get their own photos. Instead, someone should design a device that would register your location when you want to “take” a picture and then give you access to a large library of good photos from that location. You could then select whichever one you want, and it would likely be better than most amateurs can create for themselves.

This isn’t art. It’s buying someone else’s notion of art, even if you give it the impressive label of “AI”.

I use AI-based features when they allow me to get the effect I want better than I can do manually. For example, I find Photoshop’s new object selection tool, which is AI-based, handy because it allows me to select complex objects better than I can manually. However, it’s selecting what I want it to select. Ditto, content aware fill.

To each her or his own.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Kevin Raber.

[Joseph Colson Participant Posts: 8]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #10 on: December 23, 2020 at 5:54 pm

I’m a skeptic. First and foremost, I believe that much of the current “AI” nomenclature is marketing hype, not true artificial intelligence. Topaz was one of the first in the AI pool with their most recent plugin upgrades. It reminds me of previous attempts to gain market momentum by using emerging technology trendy names. I’m an old guy, so I remember the “.com” phase, the “cloud computing” phase, the “HDR” phase, and many more. Luminar AI may indeed be a clever app, but IMHO it isn’t AI. Second, the $99 price isn’t a reason to try it. I don’t know about you, but I don’t throw a Benjamin at every new app that comes down the pike. And I’m willing to pay more if the app is truly revolutionary. Luminar AI may indeed be a clever app, but IMHO it’s not revolutionary. Finally, the Adobe (Lightroom and Photoshop) and Phase One (Capture One) apps do most of the same things that Luminar AI claims to do. Yes, using LR/PS and/or Capture One may take more steps, and may require more skill in selections and masking, but those apps are full-featured and well tested. I was suspicious of Luminar AI when I began to receive pre-order emails in early fall. Why would I pre-order software that hasn’t been thoroughly tested by working photographers in multiple real world scenarios? No thanks.

“Keep an open mind!”

I intend to. For the time being, I’ll watch from a safe distance.

Joe

________________________
Joe Colson
joecolsonphotography.com

[Ron Donson Participant Posts: 9]

Re: Luminar AI Discussion

Reply #11 on: December 24, 2020 at 12:42 am

I am a Luminar AI Insider.  I do NOT work for Skylum.  I’m just a photograher looking for the best results I can get.   For those who want to dive deeper into the product you can watch the 2Hr video with photographers and Skylum experts you can watch the YouTube video of the session.

If you prefer Vimeo for better video quality…

I have and use Adobe LrC and PS.  I also use DXO Nik collection.   I shoot Fuji X-Trans so I also use Iridient X-Transformer because Adobe isn’t as good for bringing out details in my RAF files.

I use all those pieces of software and maybe a couple more to get to the results I want and doing it in a reasonable amount of time.  Yes, I can probably use PS alone because we all know that with enough layers and time we can likely do whatever I want while building humongous files.

Luminar AI is easy to use…  no Phd required and I can get to the result I want much, much faster.   I must end by saying YOU are in control of the results.  Just  about everything in Luminar AI can be adjusted or not used.  Its up to you.

 

 

 

 

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