[Morris Taub Participant Posts: 15]

Adobe Lightroom & Adobe Camera Raw

on: July 25, 2021 at 11:41 am

I’m a little baffled by fujifilm’s raw/jpeg files.

I bought an older x-e3. Was curious to try. With the tiny 27mm lens. The old model. Bought them both used.

First thing ; I set it up to shoot b&w jpegs ‘Fine’ plus the raw file. When I import into Lightroom the jpeg and raw file are b&w. I’m using Lightroom 10.1.1. I did a test and imported the same files to Capture 1 21 and Capture one did import the raw (raf) files as color. Is there a spot in the Lightroom preferences to ‘choose’ this? I’ve been looking and can’t find anything.

I do have treat jpegs as separate images checked.

Second : I don’t understand the fujifilm raw import. There doesn’t seem to be a naked, neutral fujifilm raw file imported. In Lightroom it always comes in as one of the film simulations. It’s not like a Nikon raw file, or Olympus, where you get their raw file. A base, neutral type file to work from.

Also, Capture 1 shows ‘eterna’ as a choice for a film simulation. That doesn’t appear in Lightroom’s Profile section.

I think I’d prefer to use Lightroom. I know it better than Capture 1. Also, for the initial post process work, I’m not seeing a big difference in Capture 1.

Any help with this appreciated…I’m enjoying the x-e3 body. Shooting with it is fun. Thanks in advance.

Morris

short ps. Truth be told I first bought an x-e1 but the speed of the thing was a bit too slow for me.  Nice camera. I was also curious about the other film simulations. And the newer body does have a wider gamut for making adjustments.

[Andrew Rodney Participant Posts: 416]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #1 on: July 25, 2021 at 3:00 pm

The JPEGs of course should appear B&W. The raw isn’t and shouldn’t so my question is, in Develop module, does the image “Treatment” state B&W or Color and what happens if you toggle the two?

FWIW, shooting raw+JPEG ensures one (nearly always the raw) is greatly under exposed for that data.

You might want to export that “B&W” in LR to a DNG and upload so others can see what might be going on.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

[Morris Taub]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #2 on: July 25, 2021 at 8:21 pm

Hi Andrew, this was interesting. The b&w jpeg says ‘color’ for Treatment. And the Profile reads ‘color’.

The raf file says Black and White for Treatment. The Profile reads Camera Acros+R Filter, what I chose as my b&w simulation.

I exported the B&W raf file to a DNG and that is now color.

Not sure how to upload the DNG. It’s a bit over 31mb’s…

 

• This reply was modified 3 years ago by Morris Taub.

[Bud James Participant Posts: 94]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #3 on: July 28, 2021 at 6:36 am

If you shoot Fuji X, do yourself a favor and check out Capture One Pro. I used to be a Fuji X shooter and switch from LR to C1P and my images improved immensely even when using the default settings.

About 3 years ago, I satisfied a lifelong itch and bought my first Leica M, the M10. I since sold off my Fuji kit and purchased a Leica SL2 and a few M and SL lenses. I stuck with C1P for my RAW image processing and I find that I rarely need to go outside the app to do all of my image editing, cataloging  and printing.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at http://www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at http://www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto

[Andrew Rodney Participant Posts: 416]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #4 on: July 28, 2021 at 1:00 pm

The b&w jpeg says ‘color’ for Treatment.

I’m asking about the raw. The DNG is of course ‘color‘ and not rendered but the question is, what does LR/ACR ‘think‘ the raw is, based perhaps on camera metadata.

It is possible that the camera set to B&W includes metadata for a raw converter to initially show as “grayscale” as we see with some cameras when you set a ratio and shoot raw. The camera produces raw of course and doesn’t crop that raw, yet it can open cropped (because of the metadata).

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

[Morris Taub Participant Posts: 15]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #5 on: July 31, 2021 at 4:07 am

Bud James wrote:

If you shoot Fuji X, do yourself a favor and check out Capture One Pro. I used to be a Fuji X shooter and switch from LR to C1P and my images improved immensely even when using the default settings.

About 3 years ago, I satisfied a lifelong itch and bought my first Leica M, the M10. I since sold off my Fuji kit and purchased a Leica SL2 and a few M and SL lenses. I stuck with C1P for my RAW image processing and I find that I rarely need to go outside the app to do all of my image editing, cataloging  and printing.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at http://www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at http://www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto

Hi Bud. I do have Capture 1. Images on screen do look ‘different’, but this weekend I hope to print from Capture 1 and Lightroom to see what it means in print.

And, although Lightroom brings b&w jpegs and raw files into my library in black and white, Capture 1 brings the jpeg into catalog as b&w and the raw file in color. This is what Lightroom does for all my other cameras, so I was surprised it doesn’t work the same for the fujifilm.

I’m not sure why Lightroom brings the raf files into catalog as b&w. I’ve picked a fujifilm b&w simulation in camera, but always assumed it was for jpeg only. The raf file brought into Lightroom lists that simulation, acros+R, as the profile. It’s easy enough to pick another ‘color’ profile via Lightroom and adobe’s simulations, but I’m surprised I have to and it’s an extra step that isn’t a direct fujifilm color simulation.

I guess the raw files i get shown from my nikon body or olympus body are also adobe versions. Would have to use each companies own software to see their demosaic.

As I write this I am downloading a version of raw file converter ex 3.0 by silkypix. I will try and use to convert an image or two and print and see what it looks like compared to C1 and Lightroom.

[Morris Taub]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #6 on: July 31, 2021 at 4:23 am

Andrew Rodney wrote:

The b&w jpeg says ‘color’ for Treatment.

I’m asking about the raw. The DNG is of course ‘color‘ and not rendered but the question is, what does LR/ACR ‘think‘ the raw is, based perhaps on camera metadata.

It is possible that the camera set to B&W includes metadata for a raw converter to initially show as “grayscale” as we see with some cameras when you set a ratio and shoot raw. The camera produces raw of course and doesn’t crop that raw, yet it can open cropped (because of the metadata).

Hi Andrew. Yes. Lightroom is reading the raf file as the b&w simulation I picked in camera. I don’t know why.

I brought the same images into Capture 1 version 21 and the raf files are color, the jpegs b&w. I did copy the images off the sd card to a different hard drive and back up is saved to a new location. Not sure, but didn’t want the saved images i did for Lightroom to have any effect on the Capture 1 images. Figured I’d just delete what I don’t need later.

In the Capture 1 library the jpeg file has ‘srgb iec61966-2.1’ as the icc profile for both b&w and color jpegs. Not sure what this means. If it’s important or not. The color raf files have the Classic Chrome simulation  I chose as the ‘curve’ for color jpegs and fujifilm x-e3 generic as the icc profile.

All this is a little confusing for me. My other ‘raw’ files from nikon, olympus, and my GR lll don’t have all this stuff going on. It’s pretty straight forward.

In the end I’m just trying to understand what I’m looking at. I think the silkypix software I just downloaded may show me more. Then I’ll just stop. I’ve read this software isn’t great for user interface, but i’m hoping it will show me fujifilms intent for b&w and color output.

thanks again…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by Morris Taub.

[Andrew Rodney Participant Posts: 416]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021 at 12:06 pm

Again, I suspect LR is reading some metadata and simply by default, providing a B&W rendering. You can’t get the color back at all or only by default?

Also, what are your Import Presets for this camera look like?

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

[Morris Taub]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #8 on: July 31, 2021 at 12:22 pm

Andrew Rodney wrote:

Again, I suspect LR is reading some metadata and simply by default, providing a B&W rendering. You can’t get the color back at all or only by default?

Also, what are your Import Presets for this camera look like?

Oh no, it’s easy. I click on all the raf files that are b&w and pick a profile from the adobe selection. No problem there. Just an extra step.

Never set an import preset for it, nor any of my other cameras. I did make one a few days ago. I’m gonna shoot a card full of b&w acros soon. Will then apply the preset I created. See what happens.

thanks

m

short ps. I did import several of these raf files via Silkypix. All the raf’s that had b&w for jpegs read as color. Not sure why Lightroom is reading b&w for the rafs…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by Morris Taub.

[Andrew Rodney Participant Posts: 416]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021 at 12:24 pm

There is always a default for import and further, you can create one with that profile that produces color to cut an extra step.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

[Morris Taub Participant Posts: 15]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #10 on: July 31, 2021 at 12:25 pm

Andrew Rodney wrote:

There is always a default for import and further, you can create one with that profile that produces color to cut an extra step.

I will try.

[Jonathan Cross Participant Posts: 51]

Re: fujifilm raf files

Reply #11 on: October 2, 2021 at 2:03 pm

Hello,

Have just read this thread.  I have an X-E3 and have just tried taking an image with the camera set to Monochrome standard and JPEG Fine + RAW.  I imported the RAW into LR Classic 10.4.  It briefly appeared as B&W but then changed to colour.  The JPEG is B&W. In LR preferences  and my Presets tab,  the RAW Defaults Global show as Adobe Default.  All I can say is that my version of LR is OK.

Good luck,

Jonathan

 

[Author]

Posts