[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Capture One No Longer owned by Phase One?

on: October 30, 2022 at 7:13 pm

I don’t know whether you are a troll or you really mean this, but if you mean it you could do yourself a favour by firstly informing yourself about the facts and then putting together a fact-based, coherent story. I was tempted to ignore this rubbish, but as I was named I decided to review a few salient factors:

(1) The 10 bucks isn’t just for Lightroom, it’s for Lightroom plus Photoshop and these applications are increasingly well-integrated for working inter-actively on the same image.

(2) Adobe produces upgrades (beyond “dot releases” for minor bugs) with new features, some of which are significant, about every year to 18 months.

(3) Under the perpetual licensing model that existed before the transition to the subscription model, these upgrades costed about $250.00 for Photoshop and $100 for Lightroom. So figure under the old model that those people who wanted their software to be always up-to-date paid about $350 per 12 or 18 for the privilege. That put the monthly pricing-equivalent in the range of $30 to $20 per month, but nowadays with the subscription model we are paying USD 10 per month. That’s why I said from a pricing perspective this is a good deal.

It is true that with subscription model you need to keep paying to have fully functional applications with all the latest features working. But that was also true for the perpetual licensing model, unless at some point you wanted to get off the train and spend the rest of your photographic existence with one version of an application that becomes increasingly dated as the years roll onward, and for sure at some point in time incompatible with your up-dated operating system. That is what this whole argument boils down to, and it is, trust me, time-worn and threadbare by now.

[Jens Brogaard Participant Posts: 2]

Re: Capture One No Longer owned by Phase One?

Reply #1 on: October 30, 2022 at 7:32 pm

Mark D Segal wrote:

my mind is open

Turned grumpy? Chill.

You’re right about Photoshop. Otherwise it’s up to everyone to make their calculation on figures from today and the need for (marginal) software improvements.

Have a great day.

Over & out.

[Jens Brogaard]

Re: Capture One No Longer owned by Phase One?

Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023 at 11:03 am

Jens Brogaard wrote:

Mark D Segal wrote:

10 bucks (US) a month I think is very good value

I know, much have been written about Lightroom’s pricing but… when you calculate 10 bucks not just monthly but over e.g. 10 years contrary to 2 perpetual licenses (the rate I bought LR) then you really notice the difference.

That’s a lot Adobe gets especially (!) when digital economy is governed by (almost) zero marginal costs.

And then there’s the principle. If you say yes to every small monthly amount then small streams make great rivers.

I see the point in monthly payments if you’re using their cloud or get monthly upgrades but just because I walk in their “shoes” (LRc) I should have the choice, which they have chosen not to give their loyal users, which is why I choose C1 or darktable (free).

p.s. a late thread but I note my first post on a 1 year anniversary 🙂

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Jens Brogaard.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Jens Brogaard. Reason: just clarification
• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Jens Brogaard.

Hi Jens, this is even later than your post, but for reasons I don’t know, I never saw this till now when I came back to this thread which is partly relevant to the discussion in the current thread about C1’s recent commercial policy changes. You make a couple of points here that I think deserve some comment.

Firstly, on the cost of subscriptions versus upgrades of perpetual licenses. Well, it depends on how one managed it, BUT that said, here’s the comparable reality. We now pay USD120/annum for the subscription to the Adobe Photographer’s Bundle which includes Lr, Ps and Bridge plus some storage. Before this model came into being, Adobe’s policy was to upgrade Lr and Ps every 18 months. The Ps upgrade cost was about USD 200 and the Lr about 100 if I remember correctly, totaling about USD 300/1.5 years or $200 per year – i.e. more expensive than the current subscription model for those who upgraded with every major upgrade cycle, which we can download no additional charge with the subscription model.

Then you claim that the digital economy is governed by (almost) zero marginal costs. I don’t know where you get this idea from, but it’s wrong. You should download a copy of Adobe’s most recent 10-K submission to the US SEC and read it. You will then have a fuller understanding of the cost and risk profiles this company undertakes relative to their revenues. Yes, they are doing very well, but that isn’t contrary to any “principle” I’m aware of, and they certainly have very substantial “marginal costs” – for example, their investment in R&D is about 18% of their cost structure. So I don’t know what “principle” you are talking about. If a company comes by a huge revenue stream honestly because the market is prepared to reward them with that, isn’t that how our economic systems are designed to operate? The notion of the “just price” disappeared from economic theory many centuries ago, for better or worse as the case may be.

Turning to your last point, I don’t understand the basis for your opinion that one should have freedom of choice between a subscription model and a perpetual license model? Where is it written that software companies must do this? Maybe some people want it that way, but that doesn’t make it a matter of incontestable principle. Again, what companies do with their pricing models depends on what they are offering to consumers and what and how consumers are willing to pay. For sure, Adobe enjoys considerable market power so they have flexibility to design and implement their pricing models and pricing – but only to a certain extent before the market balks and they start losing market share to various competitors who are out there chafing at their heels – this is the kind of choice that is actually goof for consumers because real effective competition means people have options, which can discipline the market.

[Guest Posts: 1]

Re: Capture One No Longer owned by Phase One?

Reply #3 on: June 10, 2024 at 5:23 am

I know, much have been written about Lightroom’s pricing but… when you calculate 10 bucks not just monthly but over e.g. 10 years contrary to 2 perpetual licenses (the rate I bought LR) then you really notice the difference.

That’s a lot Adobe gets especially (!) when digital economy is governed by (almost) zero marginal costs.

And then there’s the principle. If you say yes to every small monthly amount then small streams make great rivers.

I see the point in monthly payments if you’re using their cloud or get monthly upgrades but just because I walk in their “shoes” (LRc) I should have the choice, which they have chosen not to give their loyal users, which is why I choose C1 or darktable (free).

p.s. a late thread but I note my first post on a 1 year anniversary  https://studyhelper.com/argumentative-essay-samples

I`m a bit late too,  but I totally get where you’re coming from regarding Lightroom’s pricing. Those monthly fees really add up over time. When you compare it to buying perpetual licenses, it does feel like Adobe is raking in a lot more, especially considering their minimal marginal costs. Plus, the principle of it is important. Small monthly fees can indeed accumulate into significant amounts.

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Capture One No Longer owned by Phase One?

Reply #4 on: June 10, 2024 at 8:06 am

It would appear you have not carefully read and/or understood my response to Jens Broggard above.

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