[Elliot Puritz Silver Member Posts: 77]

Printing Colour Management

on: July 19, 2020 at 3:37 pm

After reading Marc’s review I purchased a box of 8 1/2×11.

Upon opening the well sealed bag there was a rather unpleasant odor….allowing the paper to air out.

However, of importance, I noticed the recommendation that one decrease the ink density by “10”.

I wonder if Marc decreased the ink density in his tests.

 

Elliot

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 951]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020 at 7:36 pm

The recommendation to decrease ink density by 10 is actually not important in this case. Breathing Color recommended custom profiling because they did not have a profile for this paper in an Epson SCP5000 printer (when I prepared the review). Once you make a custom profile, the effect of default ink density would be accounted for in the characterization of the printer’s performance with this paper and further adjustments should not be necessary provided the profile is satisfactory. If, since then, Breathing Color has provided their own profile for which they recommend reducing ink density and you will be using their profile, then you should reduce the ink density accordingly.

[Elliot Puritz Silver Member Posts: 77]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020 at 8:10 pm

Thanks Mark.  Very helpful, and much appreciated.

To be honest many of these luster papers are so close that under glazing one wonders if there will be any discernible difference in the appearance of the prints.  Of course, if one uses a bespoke ICC profile then subtle differences might be more apparent.

Incidentally, if one reads the description of the paper BC calls it “Baryta Like”- whatever that means!

The odor escaping from the package upon opening does NOT smell like Baryta!

 

Elliot

[Elliot Puritz Silver Member Posts: 77]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #3 on: July 25, 2020 at 6:19 pm

I have made several prints with the new Breathing Color paper and can affirm Marc’s positive comments.

However, I am becoming hard pressed to tell the differences between prints made on various luster papers when the image is edited to similar values using the ICC profiles of the paper.  If the image is matted and framed behind glazing I would surmise that it would difficult to impossible for most to parse the differences in prints made from one paper to another.  Behind glazing the texture of a given paper is certainly attenuated and as noted one wonders if the differences between the various coating textures will be appreciated.

Have we reached “sufficiency” in luster papers Marc?  Is the vast price difference between for example Museo Silver Rag and Innova Cotton Gloss justifiable from a “results standpoint”?  Please note that I am NOT picking on Museo and favoring Innova…but simply wondering what would “justify” the price differential.

It is apparent that you have a vast experience with printing on various papers.  Can you differentiate prints made on various papers when the image is behind glazing?

 

[Daniel Koretz Participant Posts: 87]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #4 on: August 4, 2020 at 9:36 am

I have the same question, although I would have asked how much difference one can see behind glass rather than whether one can see a difference.

There are clear differences in tone among baryta papers, and this should be apparent, especially if one doesn’t use UV protective glass. For example, Red River Palo Duro Baryta Fiber is considerably warmer than Canson Baryta Photographique II. Canson Baryta Prestige, which appears to have more OBAs (I can’t vouch for this) is colder yet.

However, it isn’t clear to me how much of the differences in surface textures will be apparent under glass. I’m in the process of testing a bunch of barytas because Canson discontinued the original Baryta Photographique, which was my most-used paper. Without glass, differences in the surfaces are quite clear, particularly if any light is shining from an angle or the side. I haven’t gotten far enough to repeat these tests under glass and have only UV protective glass here to use in tests.

[Daniel Koretz Participant Posts: 87]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #5 on: August 4, 2020 at 9:51 am

PS: I won’t be able to test this until late this month

[Elliot Puritz Silver Member Posts: 77]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #6 on: August 4, 2020 at 11:31 am

Hello Daniel:

Thanks for examining the issues alluded to in additional depth! To be honest, I would be very surprised if you will see texture differences under glazing…especially if such tests are done “blinded” without previous knowledge of which papers are being evaluated. I agree that such tests would be more complete if several different kinds of glass glazing were available.

For those who sell images and thus hand a given print to a client the weight and tactile feel of a given paper is part of the process.  There is IMO no doubt that various luster papers feel considerably different in the hand. Thus such artists might argue strongly for the use of a particular luster paper.

I agree about the differences in tone between various luster papers.

I believe that Canson affirms the presence of OBAs in the Baryta Prestige which is, incidentally, a wonderful paper.

Interesting observation about the RR vs.  new Canson paper you mention above. The RR PDBaryta Fiber 300 is “new” and now referenced as “Museum Grade” which would suggest the absence of OBAs.  Recall that the previous SanGabriel Baryta ( some suggested the paper was the previous Canson Baryta Photographique rebranded ) had a lower archival rating….the previous Canson BP paper is no longer available and I believe that the RR SGB is no longer easily available…both of these papers had small amounts of OBAs…and taken with the withdrawal of the Canson paper and the low stock of the RR SGB would argue that the papers were indeed similar or identical.  I wonder about the similarity of the new Canson Baryta Photographique and the new RR PDBaryta Fiber.

[Daniel Koretz Participant Posts: 87]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #7 on: August 4, 2020 at 1:36 pm

I wonder about the similarity of the new Canson Baryta Photographique and the new RR PDBaryta Fiber.

They are very different. The Photographique II is very close to the original Photographique in whiteness (96 vs. 99). The Red River Palo Duro paper, as I mentioned, is noticeably warmer. (I believe it is listed as having no OBAs.) The surface of the RR paper is not at all like Photgraphique II. It’s more similar to the original Photographique, but possibly slightly more deeply pebbled. IMHO, it’s a very nice paper, but I personally like a cooler white.

RR said that a replacement for San Gabriel should be arriving late this summer, but they didn’t yet know the name when they wrote me. From what they said, I have a hunch that that one will be more similar to Photographique II, but we’ll have to see.

Re Prestige: I have printed test images on it, and I like it a great deal. I’m not convinced I want to use a paper with that level of OBAs, but it’s still on my list of possibles.

[Elliot Puritz Silver Member Posts: 77]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #8 on: August 4, 2020 at 3:39 pm

Thanks.

I was referring to the Palo Duro Baryta, not the Palo Duro Gloss which is a ringer for Canson Platine.  I too have used the paper.  It is warm toned, but works for many images.

Agree completely about the Prestige.

Referring to the Breathing Color papers:  I wanted to try an addition matte paper but noticed that many of their matte papers have OBAs added.  Quite surprising.

Thanks for the corrections.

[Sean Anderson Participant Posts: 11]

Re: Breathing Color River Stone Satin Rag

Reply #9 on: September 16, 2022 at 3:34 am

I’m interested in trying this paper because it’s the only double-sided baryta on the market. But this video (link here) shows it has nasty gloss differential and speckled white spots. Can anyone confirm if this is a problem and if spraying with varnish fixes it?

 

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