Basic Color

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    Topic: Basic Color Read 529 Times
  • Elliot Puritz
    Elliot Puritz
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    New Article Announcements & Discussions
    on: May 3, 2020 at 11:23 pm

    Great article Mark.  I often wondered how Basic Color software worked.

    The question that some of us might have:  Are the results demonstrably better in prints using the Basic Color profiling vs. other software?  Using the same input device, i.e., sensor on the monitor, are there any obvious differences in the profiles?

     

    Elliot

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #1 on: May 3, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    Glad you liked the article Eliot, thanks. I haven’t compared products recently, so I don’t know the answer to your question. I’ve been using various versions of basICColor for quite a few years once I discovered that it performed more accurately than a couple of others I had used back then so I just stayed with it. This version does stand out for its ease of use, adaptability and accuracy. It’s not very expensive, so as far as I’m concerned more accuracy is both affordable and better insurance against printing errors than less accuracy. And it offers a lot of features for the price.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Elliot Puritz
    Elliot Puritz
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    Posts: 25
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #2 on: May 4, 2020 at 10:02 am

    Mark:

    I went to the basICColor web site. Perhaps I missed the information: What is the final cost if one wants to buy after trying?  I gather one must supply credit card information to actually try the program and such information is then used to purchase.  If I am correct in my supposition I find such rather interesting in that the company now has credit card information on one who has perhaps decided NOT to buy the product!  So, can one try and purchase from a dealer in the USA or Canada?  At one time Free Style in LA sold the program.  As I recall, the installation and use of the preceding iterations were somewhat challenging and thus Free Style actually had links to those who, for added cost, would help users both install and use the software.

    Jim Kasson
    Jim Kasson
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    Posts: 70
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #3 on: May 4, 2020 at 10:08 am

    Mark, I have a Eizo ColorEdge CG319X, which is self calibrating. Do you see significant advantages in using this software in addition to the Eizo software?

     

    Jim

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #4 on: May 4, 2020 at 10:26 am

    Hi Jim, as I’ve never owned or used an Eizo monitor I can’t say. My general take would be that if you are satisfied that your printed output is a good rendition of what you expected based on what you saw on your display, your existing set-up is fine – unless you need it to do something special it’s not capable of doing, then one looks for other solutions that may fit the need.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #5 on: May 4, 2020 at 10:29 am

    Mark:

    I went to the basICColor web site. Perhaps I missed the information: What is the final cost if one wants to buy after trying? I gather one must supply credit card information to actually try the program and such information is then used to purchase. If I am correct in my supposition I find such rather interesting in that the company now has credit card information on one who has perhaps decided NOT to buy the product! So, can one try and purchase from a dealer in the USA or Canada? At one time Free Style in LA sold the program. As I recall, the installation and use of the preceding iterations were somewhat challenging and thus Free Style actually had links to those who, for added cost, would help users both install and use the software.

    Hi Eliot. Please revert to Annex 1 of my article: the whole procedure for buying, installing and licensing the software is laid out there. The current price the last time I checked it (several weeks back) is 69 EURO for the complete application. You can use Paypal to buy it directly from basICColor, and you don’t pay for the trial period.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Elliot Puritz
    Elliot Puritz
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    Posts: 25
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #6 on: May 4, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    Thanks Mark…I noted the annex but not the price.  Appreciate the response.

    The price is less than I would have thought.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #7 on: May 4, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    I’m glad you raised this. I mentioned the price in “Concluding Remarks” under Figure 29, but now that I go back to their website I see the German page mentions the price and the English one does not . I should revert to them and get this clarified.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Jim Kasson
    Jim Kasson
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    Posts: 70
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #8 on: May 4, 2020 at 1:08 pm

    My general take would be that if you are satisfied that your printed output is a good rendition of what you expected based on what you saw on your display…

    It’s good enough. My expectations are not high, though.  After 30 years of working with soft proofing, I don’t think that, for critical work, soft proofing can replace hard proofing. The viewing conditions for monitors and prints are sufficiently different that, except for laboratory conditions, the viewer adaptation (using the word in its most general sense) will be materially different. That doesn’t mean that calibration is unnecessary for effective proofing, just that it’s not sufficient.

     

    Jim

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #9 on: May 4, 2020 at 2:16 pm

    My general take would be that if you are satisfied that your printed output is a good rendition of what you expected based on what you saw on your display…

    It’s good enough. My expectations are not high, though. After 30 years of working with soft proofing, I don’t think that, for critical work, soft proofing can replace hard proofing. The viewing conditions for monitors and prints are sufficiently different that, except for laboratory conditions, the viewer adaptation (using the word in its most general sense) will be materially different. That doesn’t mean that calibration is unnecessary for effective proofing, just that it’s not sufficient.

    Jim

    Hi Jim, As no doubt you know, both calibration and profiling are important for a proper colour management set-up. I agree with you it’s tricky to work between transmitted and reflected light. The one cannot be a completely faithful replica of the other, but if the display were properly calibrated and profiled, the printer well-profiled and in particular the profiles well-specified for simulating the softproof, the softproofing should provide a reasonably good predictable forward view of colour appearance in the print; perfect, no, but good enough for most intents and purposes, I would say yes. Fraser, Murphy and Bunting cover this rather nicely in Real World Color Management Second Edition, page 291. They do recommend the benefits of softproofing, while at the same time acknowledging it is not a perfect substitute for a hardproof. The whole question is whether it’s good enough for one’s purposes, and that’s judgmental.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Elliot Puritz
    Elliot Puritz
    Participant
    Posts: 25
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #10 on: May 4, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    I’m glad that you and Jim are discussing soft proofing vs. hard proofing.  Certainly both of you have excellent points.  Nevertheless after spending lots of time using a viewing box and calibrating my monitor using various reference images, printing, and saving profiles for various papers, I have reached the same conclusion:  For prints that are to the best possible standards hard proofing is indispensable

    With reference to hard proofing:  Do you find the printed image proofed on a monitor profile with for example D50 light will look materially different when that particular print is viewed in different “colored” light?  Another way of asking the same question: Do you proof differently depending upon the conditions in which the print might be viewed?  It would seem onerous ( unless one is using Image Print ) to have profiles for all possible lighting conditions.

    Kevin Raber
    Kevin Raber
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    Posts: 551
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #11 on: May 4, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    Jim, as I say, “The Proof Is In The Print”. once you have the print you can see so much more on what you want to do next.  But, good calibration and profiles will make that step more an adjustment of the image content than the quality of the image.

    Kevin Raber
    CEO & Publisher of PhotoPXL.com and Rockhopperworkshops.com

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Participant
    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #12 on: May 4, 2020 at 3:13 pm

    I’m glad that you and Jim are discussing soft proofing vs. hard proofing. Certainly both of you have excellent points. Nevertheless after spending lots of time using a viewing box and calibrating my monitor using various reference images, printing, and saving profiles for various papers, I have reached the same conclusion: For prints that are to the best possible standards hard proofing is indispensable

    With reference to hard proofing: Do you find the printed image proofed on a monitor profile with for example D50 light will look materially different when that particular print is viewed in different “colored” light? Another way of asking the same question: Do you proof differently depending upon the conditions in which the print might be viewed? It would seem onerous ( unless one is using Image Print ) to have profiles for all possible lighting conditions.

    I think your first paragraph is one of these “in the eye of the beholder” issues, so while I respect your view of the matter, it doesn’t reflect my experience. I seldom need to reprint a photo because of unexpected results, I have been doing this with digital processes for two decades and I’m fussy about what I want for both tone and colour in my prints.

    Your second paragraph is really tricky to deal with. Because of our visual adaptation, the longer we wait between viewing under either one condition or the other, the less apparent the differences will be because our eyes adapt to what is in front of us and we quickly forget what came before. But if we were to do a quick back and forth between say D50 and D65, the difference would be immediately apparent and we may well be tempted to make adjustments for the one we expect to be the most relevant viewing condition. And the nice thing about display 6 is that it allows us to do exactly that just by clicking a button.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

    Elliot Puritz
    Elliot Puritz
    Participant
    Posts: 25
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #13 on: May 4, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    All good points.  Your experience in printing images for many years supplies excellent insights Mark…the voice of experience is usually well tuned!

    Thanks.

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
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    Posts: 230
    Re: Basic Color
    Reply #14 on: May 4, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    You are welcome Eliot.

    Mark D Segal
    Author: Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, published by LaserSoft Imaging AG
    https://www.silverfast.com/downloads/92ed080ac1ae274ea6aeed756a504f7a/en.html

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