Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?

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    Topic: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason? Read 656 Times
  • Eliott James
    Eliott James
    Participant
    Posts: 8
    Printing Colour Management
    on: January 12, 2021 at 2:45 am

    For some years now I’ve taken my raw files (CR2) into Photoshop working space of Adobe RGB and processed from there through to printing. ProPhoto wasn’t on my radar much. But as I’ve read more about it I realize I may have been shortsighted, even though working with ProPhoto may sometimes cause problems.
    I have a background in music recording and know that taking a 16 bit digital track and converting it to 24 bit will not give anymore musical information than you had and may introduce noise. I suspect that this is also true of taking an Adobe RGB file and converting to ProPhoto. Which if true means I need to start over in processing my RAW files to ProPhoto if I want to pull out all the information from the photo.

    Am I looking at this correctly?

    Thanks for your opinions.

    Eliott

     

    Eliott James Landscape and Seascape Photography www.eliottjames.photography

    Rand Scott Adams
    Rand Scott Adams
    Silver Member
    Posts: 247
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:51 am

    Everything you need to know:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLlr7wpAZKs&list=PLdOJ5lYPddQkPJ6lfuXK__5wJP49g90K2&index=10

    Andrew Rodney’s great tutorial on large color space advantages for painted output.

    Converting an AdobeRGB file to ProPhoto RGB won’t hurt the data, but it also gains you nothing.  It’s like putting 5 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pounds of potatoes size box.

    Rand

    Rand Scott Adams Rand47

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 650
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #2 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:52 am

    The music analogy is correct.

    What you should do about it depends on the content of  your photos and how you will output them. The issue is whether they really need more than ARGB(98) gamut. It is true that several of Epson’s most recent printer models can produce colours in some part of the spectrum that exceed the boundaries of ARGB(98) but not by much and not all images need that extra gamut. I wouldn’t necessarily go overboard redoing stuff because of this.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Eliott James
    Eliott James
    Participant
    Posts: 8
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #3 on: January 12, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    Thanks. I think I’ll take it slow with re-doing photos in ProPhoto. But I’m setup to be in the ProPhoto color space with all new photos.

    Eliott James Landscape and Seascape Photography www.eliottjames.photography

    Rand Scott Adams
    Rand Scott Adams
    Silver Member
    Posts: 247
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #4 on: January 12, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    I think that’s a wise decision.  And if you do think about reprocessing some of your original raw files in a ProPhoto working color space, it’s probably only worth doing for images with really large scene referenced gamut.  As Mark says above, a good pinter/paper/icc profile combination can print colors outside of AdobeRGB, but only if they are “there” in what was out in front of you when you pushed the shutter button!

    In teaching / demonstrating color management for local photo clubs, I have an image that has a huge color gamut.  I have sample prints made from sRGB ingest, AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB.    You can, in this particular “wild” fall color image, clearly see more apparent color range and much better tonal transitions in the ProPhoto print.  It is subtle, but it is very much “there.”  And just for fun, I also print a carefully soft-proofed version from the ProPhoto file and every single of my students will pick the soft proofed version over the straight print.  Prints were made on an Epson SC P5000, on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (RIP) paper using a really good icc profile made for me by Andrew Rodney.  I use this demo to reinforce the idea of, “Not leaving one single drop of image quality on the table, if we don’t have to!”

    Rand

    Rand Scott Adams Rand47

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 650
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #5 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:13 pm

    “………but only if they are “there” in what was out in front of you when you pushed the shutter button!”

    Or perhaps more accurately – that adjusted for what the camera sensor is capable of capturing.

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Rand Scott Adams
    Rand Scott Adams
    Silver Member
    Posts: 247
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:21 pm

    Mark,

    I’d say “of course” – of course.  LOL  But the truth is that most sensors today have the ability to capture color information that is way beyond what fits in AdobeRGB.  So, as Andrew intimates in his video, a ProPhoto working space prevents dumping information unnecessarily “if it’s there in the raw file” – by using a smaller working space.  Despite some of the “conventional wisdom” on the internet (think Gary Fong et al) there’s no downside.

    Rand

    Rand Scott Adams Rand47

    Mark D Segal
    Mark D Segal
    Silver Member
    Posts: 650
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #7 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    Rand, what I was getting at is that particularly when photographing outdoors, the sensor gamut is smaller than the scene gamut, so the boundary gamut with which one starts the digital imaging process is what the sensor can capture, and yes, I agree many modern sensors can normally capture more than ARGB(98).

    Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

    Rand Scott Adams
    Rand Scott Adams
    Silver Member
    Posts: 247
    Re: Adobe RGB to ProPhoto – is there a reason?
    Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021 at 9:59 pm

    Mark,

    “Of course” times two!  Yes.  Won’t it, wouldn’t it, be wonderful when/if technology gets us there.  My GFX 100 is a huge leap ahead “for me” from any other camera I’ve owned.  And while new printer models are now making only small incremental gains in gamut capability, we’ve come quite a way from my original Epson 1280. It’s a great time to be a photographer.

    Rand

    Rand Scott Adams Rand47

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