Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .

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    Topic: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . . Read 31418 Times
  • Suzanne Mathia
    Suzanne Mathia
    Silver Member
    Posts: 1
    Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    on: July 26, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    I use and teach hyperlocal focusing in the Landscape Photography workshops and this methods works for most cases.  Finding the closest point that your camera  can focus while still maintaining acceptably sharp focus to infinity. The only time I will resort to focus stacking is with macro (obviously) or if my closest object is closer than my lens capabilities.  I have charts and apps and all sorts of methods for determining hyperlocal point but I usually just find the closest object and double that distance. The optimal focus point is always much closer than you would think.

    Things in the far background of a landscape image should, in my opinion not be a tack sharp as the foreground.  Acceptably sharp focus is not on acceptable but more natural and pleasing.

    Of course the current apps and charts need a lot of updating with new cameras and sensors that’s why I have created by own.  Still use the same mathematical formula but correct the COC (circle of confusion) for current cameras.

    Jim Sanderson
    Jim Sanderson
    Participant
    Posts: 3
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019 at 11:02 pm

    I have a new focus process I’ve been playing with when using tilt:

    1. With the lens wide open, dial in 1 degree of tilt, regardless of focal length.
    2. Zoom in and focus on the thing up close in the frame (usually at the bottom). Note where the helical is.
    3. Zoom in and focus on the thing in the distance (usually at the top). Note where the helical is.
    4. Set a new focus point right in between the two focus points (i.e. split the angle in half).
    5. Zoom back into the thing in the front (at the bottom).
      1. If you had to dial out to a farther distance for that thing in the distance (at the top), add more tilt until the thing in front comes in focus.
      2. If you had to dial in to a closer distance for that thing in the distance, subtract tilt until the thing in front comes in focus.
    6. Check the thing in the distance. It is usually spot on. If not, repeat.
    7. Set the lens at the f-stop you want and shoot!

    The easy way to remember Step 5 is, “Focus out, tilt out; focus in, tilt in.”

    Except for macro work or the camera very close to the ground, I haven’t found a case yet where I had to repeat or fine tune anything. There are a few reasons why I think this works regardless of focal length: First, even though 1 degree has a much lower Scheimpflug line with longer lenses, the longer lens’ narrow view doesn’t see the ground until way out in front of the camera, so there is plenty of room for the plane of focus to penetrate up through the ground by the time it enters the field of view. Second, since more tilt decreases DoF, it helps to have as little tilt as possible.

    Dave

    I’ve seen that method mentioned before. I’ve been using Lumariver DOF app. Not only does it give you a starting point for the amount of tilt, but also focus wedge angles for whatever aperture your using. It also lets you enter sensor size and pixel pitch for different cameras and lens information to give you Hyperfocal distances.

    I’ve been using Hyperfocal distance as a means of focus on GFX100s for landscapes till I become more familiar with the various lenses I have for it.

    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Participant
    Posts: 641
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019 at 6:07 pm

    On my (Android) phone I use Hyperfocal Pro to calculate distances, etc. In its camera list it has the Leica S2 and the Hasselblad X1D but no Fuji G cameras or Phase One. However, it uses the camera model to set the CoC and there’s a custom CoC option for whatever camera you have.

    Mike.

    _____
    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Victoria, BC
    https://www.wolfnowl.com/

    Daniel Smith
    Daniel Smith
    Participant
    Posts: 98
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #3 on: August 27, 2019 at 6:50 pm

    All of this seems so much more complicated than just setting up an 8×10, use some tilt if needed while checking the image on the ground glass with a Loupe. Stop down and check it and then close the lens, insert the film holder, check your meter reading, pull the darkslide and trip the shutter.

    No phone needed – as if you could get a long enough cord so you could answer it in the field anyway. 😉Compose the image, Copr. Daniel Smith

    "A good still photograph, studied by an inquiring mind, frequently yields more information than a mile of moving images". Walter Cronkite, New York, June 1989

    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Participant
    Posts: 641
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019 at 10:11 pm

    No phone needed – as if you could get a long enough cord so you could answer it in the field anyway. ?

    Touché.

    We watched a video recently where two twenty-somethings were given a phone number, a rotary phone, and four minutes to dial the number. They didn’t succeed. 🙂

    _____
    Mike Nelson Pedde
    Victoria, BC
    https://www.wolfnowl.com/

    Jim Kasson
    Jim Kasson
    Silver Member
    Posts: 77
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #5 on: August 30, 2019 at 11:11 am

    There are lots of videos on various techniques for achieving optimal focus in landscape work.

    I’m curious to hear what specific approaches members here find most effective / manageable in the field. I know my question is stated pretty broadly, but that is intentional. This might even make for a good article for the site.

    In my opinion, deciding where to focus and what f-stop to use for landscapes is an exercise in blur management, considering sensor-induced blur, defocusing blur, and diffraction blur simultaneously. I have developed some software to optimize the tradeoffs. Unfortunately, it doesn’t run on a phone. But it is still useful as a learning tool.

    This is the first post in an exploration of the tradeoffs:

    https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/choosing-f-stops-and-focus-distance-for-landscapes/

    At the bottom of that post, you’ll find links to all the other posts in that series.

    In particular, here are some examples:

    https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/ff-examples-of-optimal-blur-management/

    It won’t do any optimization for you, and it ignores sensor blur, but here is a DOF calculator that takes into account diffraction blur:

    https://www.georgedouvos.com/douvos/Intro_to_TrueDoF-Pro.html

    Jim

     

    Rand Scott Adams
    Rand Scott Adams
    Silver Member
    Posts: 287
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #6 on: August 30, 2019 at 12:19 pm

    Jim,

    Thanks very much!  And it’s good to see you here.  I’m certain your contributions will be much appreciated by all.

    Rand

    Rand Scott Adams Rand47

    Kevin Raber
    Kevin Raber
    Silver Member
    Posts: 1284
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #7 on: August 30, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    Jim, Thanks for the replies and being part of this forum. It means a lot to see you here.  The links to your blog are interesting reads.

    Kevin Raber
    Owner and Publisher of photoPXL

    Al Simmons
    Al Simmons
    Participant
    Posts: 1
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #8 on: November 1, 2019 at 6:46 pm

    In my experience, focus on the most important element in the scene and let everything else fall where it may.

    Like your style, Graham.

    Daniel Smith
    Daniel Smith
    Participant
    Posts: 98
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019 at 2:25 am

    I know this is not View Camera territory for most though we do still have digital backs that will work on some of them.

    The questions of focus and depth of field management have been with us from the beginning of photography.

    With digital I see one thing that has me wondering – few actually Test the gear they are using.

    So easy to set up a test of focus/depth of field and do a comparison. You don’t trip the shutter and wait a week for Chromes to arrive in the mail. You can go right in and check your options/brackets or whatever on a monitor. Same with learning exposure. Not all that different from learning a particular film would hold detail in the highlights til 2.3 stops above middle gray to 3.1 below. Basic testing gave your information you could rely on. Same with digital and you don’t spend darkroom time or have to shoot 2-6 rolls of film or a few dozen sheets to learn the paramaters.

    From depth of field to exposure to high ISO limitations and expressive possibilities digital has made it a lot easier. Yet, few actually test before going out into the field.

    “Sunny 16” still works when exposing and we can refine things a lot from there – no phone or software needed. Learning how to spot meter or use an incident meter still works well. Basic understanding of focus and depth of field markings on lenses works well in the field as does understanding the circle of confusion so you figure “acceptable” in your images.

    Swings, tilts and shift – the real control of the view cameras is something few really used even with film work.

    The basics are still the same.Tommy, he world's largest Snowmobiling Turtle

     

    "A good still photograph, studied by an inquiring mind, frequently yields more information than a mile of moving images". Walter Cronkite, New York, June 1989

    Christopher Baughen
    Christopher Baughen
    Participant
    Posts: 1
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #10 on: March 14, 2022 at 11:29 pm

    Rand,

    For scenic photographs where parts of the subject may extend from near to far, I manually set my lens to the hyperfocal distance by means of the focusing marks on my lenses.

    I have attached a photo of the three lenses I use for most of my landscape work. In each case the focus has been set at the hyperfocal distance. Hyperfocal distance is dependant on the aperture used. I tend to use f/11 for landscape work.

    CB-hyperfocal

    The 24mm lens at f/11 will provide acceptable focus between about 3 feet and infinity. The actual focusing distance is is about 5 feet.

    The 50mm lens at f/11 will provide acceptable focus between about 12 feet and infinity. The actual focusing distance is about 25 feet.

    The 105mm lens cannot really be used at its hyperfocal distance because the range of acceptable focus is very narrow. This is ok because I tend to use this lens to focus on a plane or other definite subject.

    The examples above show that the extent of acceptable focus varies according to the focal length of the lens, and that hyperfocal marks are only applicable to a particular focal length. That is why these marks cannot be put on variable focal length lenses.

    John Hollenberg
    John Hollenberg
    Participant
    Posts: 63
    Re: Focus technique for MF landscape work. . .
    Reply #11 on: March 18, 2022 at 11:05 am

    The TruDOF-Pro mentioned by Jim Kasson only works on Apple devices.  For those on Android I found a substitute:

    DOF by Jonathan Sachs.  There is also a Windows version on his website.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.jonathansachs.dof

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