[Andrew Rodney]

Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

on: May 1, 2021 at 8:59 am

Everything on a computer is a ‘table‘ of numbers (1’s and zeros) if you drill down far enough. Raw or JPEG or this web page. Perhaps even a iPod “jpeg” <g>.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Andrew Rodney.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Andrew Rodney.

[Lance Lewin Participant Posts: 44]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #1 on: May 21, 2021 at 4:30 am

This article, like one Briot wrote over a year ago, seems desperate in its overall tone: seemingly brainwashing-like; over powering in his claims, opinions and ideas on how he thinks photography has changed since the beginning of the digital photography revolution.  In Briot’s other demanding speech (a year ago) he claimed it is alright to completely manipulate the modern day photograph for Arts sake or as the wish of the artist photographer. And as “artists” we have the right to do whoever we want in creating a “photograph”. Here, again, I am being told too many misleading ideas, concepts that are extremely opinionated, and his tone is dictator-like, and can be very impressionable on new students of photography – which I suggest is very unhealthy from a pedagogy standpoint.

The only paradigm shift that is relevant within the digital photography revolution is the 1. how patrons of the arts look and interpret photographs in museums, galleries and online. Here, every time the same question is asked…’is this image authentic, was it manipulated...’ In other words, how we approach and decipher a photograph has changed forever!  And this change, in how we approach and look at a photograph, is a direct construct of 2. photography has become increasingly mind-dependent, but not from behind the viewfinder, but instead, the blossoming of creativity is from behind illuminated computer screens. At this point, I will suggest, the user has moved past pure photographic techniques, and entered a new realm of photography: like multimedia paintings…a similar dynamic has become increasingly prevalent in 21st Century photography: the Hybrid era.

What we need (and I am a strong advocate for) is a new and consistent method of identifying work created from a traditional photographic posture, and alternative compositions, I will term, “photographic mixed media” or suggested by Lucy Soutter, “Hybrid” photographs. (Soutter is a photographer, critic and art historian. She is a tutor in the Department of Critical and Historical Studies at the Royal College of Art).

 Simply, it not about how you create your art, (you should be free to reveal from your heart and mind) but more important, how it is presented.  I would not consciously share the same wall space with a painter, like wise, I would not want my (either film or digital captured) Landscape photograph hanging next to a similar, but (Briot created) photographic composite.  Of course, the underlying factor (issue) is at what point does the photographer-artist cross the line from traditional to photographic mixed media? 

This is a very deep and concerning discourse that needs a lot of room to expand for proper and thorough processing, indeed.  I look forward to your comments.  Thank you.

Kind regards,

Lance

visualizingart.com

Lance A. Lewin

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 871]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #2 on: May 21, 2021 at 8:32 am

I don’t see anything deep or concerning about any of this. Art is art; it is created using different methods, different techniques and serving different purposes. The important thing is what the end-result says to the intended audience., if there were one. Let’s skip the silos and treat creativity as creativity.

In respect of creativity, no image is non-authentic (unless plagerized) and every image is manipulated, from the time the photographer lifts the camera to the eye. Only the means differ between technologies and techniques.

Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

[David Hickey Participant Posts: 4]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021 at 4:34 pm

John Sadowsky wrote:

I have to call foul here.  Alian Briot presents three pictures of the same scene.  The first two are side-by-side “raw files as processed to give a realistic look …” – what exactly is the difference between the two?  But more irritating is the final of the three images.  Again, the caption only says “processed to give a realistic look and digitally enhanced.”  I lived in the southwest for 25 years and I can tell you that that image is not a “realistic look.”  The sky color is wrong.  The rock color is wrong.  It is actually a horrible representation of a southwest scene.

I think a lot of photographers – including Alain unfortunately, because I think he used to produce some lovely ‘low key’ images in the past – started to lose the plot when they moved over from film to digital (sorry Alain)., because digital is a completely different beast and lots of ‘film’ guys struggled to get their heads around it, even though will not admit it. But when they finally did get the hang of it, they started to go a bit way over the top with it and wanging those sliders around as if they were trying to make up for all those years where they couldn’t. So the limitations of film made their work difficult to produce but very good as a result IMHO. Whereas digital is so easy to process and work on these days in comparison, that they soon became addicted by the lack of limitations and are now happily producing work that makes your average Joe photographer’s teeth ache.

If you were good with film, then go back to film and get your mojo back I say. And if you started from digital and you have learnt to resist the temptation to go made with those sliders, then stick to digital. But which ever way you do it best (and we have to be honest with ourselves here), then the end result should not look that different.

Dave

[Terry Gipson]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #4 on: May 24, 2021 at 5:41 pm

Absolutely! So where does one start to define photography? With a camera? With a print? The “sensing substrate”? How one processes the visual “imprint”?

I think Lance’s points are well-take that this gets to be a complex issue regarding the semantics of what we do.

Terry Colorado USA [email protected] www.terrygipsonphotography.com

• This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Terry Gipson.

[Terry Gipson]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #5 on: May 24, 2021 at 5:47 pm

Terry Gipson wrote:

Absolutely! So where does one start to define photography? With a camera? With a print? The “sensing substrate”? How one processes the visual “imprint”?

I think Lance’s points are well-take that this gets to be a complex issue regarding the semantics of what we do.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Terry Gipson.

I think it was Jay Maisel who said that to make a photograph you need a camera. Good enough for me.

Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

[Terry Gipson Silver Member Posts: 33]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021 at 6:59 pm

Good point! Is a shoe box with a pin hole in it a camera?

Also if I capture an image to my SD card, is that a photograph? What if I share that image on the internet? Is that now a photograph or still an image? I think we would all agree that a printed image captured by a camera is a photograph, but does how one processes the image make is a different type of photograph? or how it is printed make it a different photograph?

I think these are legitimate questions for those who are asking these questions.

On the other hand I was never very good in philosophy or debate or rhetoric, but I do enjoy listening to those who think about issues pertinent to my experience in a different manner than I.

My point is that this line of discussion can either be a very deep and complex rabbit hole or a much more simple matter as you state.

Lance puts together shows and looks to equalize the playing field so those who present their work can do it in concert with others whose process is similar. That is a difficult job in the current milieu of those who capture anything with a camera.

Terry Colorado USA [email protected] www.terrygipsonphotography.com

[Mark D Segal]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021 at 7:40 pm

Terry, at least in my mind it’s not a matter of simple or complex. I’m looking at what imaging is from a very broad and generic perspective, from which an image can be any form of representation of something else or a construct devolved from imagination, made in any number of ways including pin hole cameras. Cave paintings that men drew on walls 50,000 years ago in ways we don’t know for sure right up to the rendered files Phase One owners make from their gazillion-pixel digital backs are all images, but the ones not made with a camera, pinhole or other, are not photographs because they don’t involve an apparatus for “painting with light”, the derivative of “photographing”. But let me ask, where does this get us? No problem with Lance’s need for themes around which to organize shows and the kinds of participation in those shows, but  I’m just having a problem envisioning how much complex parsing of concepts is really needed to do that, especially as before the pandemic it was a pretty usual occurrence. Believe me, I’m not intending to be disrespectful – I just can’t fathom what’s so problematic here – but maybe that’s just me.

Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Mark D Segal.

[Andrew Rodney Participant Posts: 351]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #8 on: May 24, 2021 at 7:57 pm

Actually what Jay said was: “Always carry a camera, it’s tough to shoot a picture without one.” and IMHO more importantly “The best camera is the one you have with you.”

These days, that’s often a cell phone.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)”

[Mark D Segal Silver Member Posts: 871]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #9 on: May 24, 2021 at 8:03 pm

Yes Andrew – that’s the exact quote from Jay.

And yes, much to the consternation of the print and paper folks, cell phones have had an enormous impact on photography – though it would be an interesting analytical exercise to determine to what extent the phones substitute for paper or just add enormous amounts of imagery. Anyhow, to my simple mind it’s all photography by differing means.

Mark D Segal Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8, SilverFast HDR, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop". Please check the PhotoPXL Store for availability.

[Terry Gipson Silver Member Posts: 33]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021 at 8:06 pm

Most artists, who accept their personal path, are often perceived by others as dogmatic, opinionated, crude, or ignorant.

Yet the expression of one’s opinion in print should be perceived as one perceives an artist’s work. Some may find accord, but the most objective of us find those expressions (in writing or art) as relating only to the artist and not reality in its broadest sense.

A true artist expresses their opinions and thoughts as they do their art. There is no sense of expressing reality. The perception of reality should be left to the realm of scientific inquiry.

To express one’s opinion clearly and succinctly is a rare ability. However, it can be divisive and disturbing. Yet those who have accepted their life as an artist will plow on regardless of the rest of our opinions.

An artist only expresses in print what they perceive. Once one defines themselves as an “artist”, all objectivity and ability to categorize becomes more difficult.

Thank you for your help along my own path!

Terry Colorado USA [email protected] www.terrygipsonphotography.com

[Terry Gipson Silver Member Posts: 33]

Re: Creating Artistic Photographs 
Film to Digital Paradigm Shift: Part 1

Reply #11 on: May 26, 2021 at 9:21 pm

Everything on a computer is a ‘table‘ of numbers (1’s and zeros) if you drill down far enough. Raw or JPEG or this web page. Perhaps even a iPod “jpeg”

I could not agree more. However if one does not understand this aspect of digital photography, then their opinion needs to be critically considered.

Terry Colorado USA [email protected] www.terrygipsonphotography.com

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